What is great music and why isn't Beethoven that great after all

[Tricky-Loops]

But to go back to the topic: Do the radio stations play all the same stuff because it's GREAT music? Or do they get money for playing the same songs over and over? Or don't they have enough time to comb through the net in search of independent artists? Or does the majority wants to listen to the same songs every day, so that they can memorize the lyrics of all top 20 songs?

[schnapsglas]

And no, I'm not talking about long tail. I am saying that music is audio, sound, and their arrangement. Its purest form is something aural.

And atmosphere, communion, communication, transmitting something to someone. For that, both transmitter and receptor(s) have to share some common background (cultural heritage).
Music is the strangest art, because it is the most abstract one, and deals with the deepest things in our human nature, touching them and creating memories, sensations, reminiscences, feelings, etc. In itself, music cannot transmit anything (I think it was Stravinsky who said that) but it certainly can transmit lots of things, provided there are communication channels already opened.
The way you say it, any sound is music, and music is any sound. I don't agree

Ha, now I see why we things differently.

For me, music is not communication. I take rather a formalist view in this -- it is just, things. I hope it evokes same emotion in you as in me, but I don't really care because I cannot see.

To be really wide, I think when medium "escapes," it just becomes installation. That "all art is installation" has been my thesis for a long time. I would say music is sound, not all sound is music, although it could be.

[JumpingJackFlash]

Music is meant to be heard.

Not always.
Much music is written as much for the "performers" as it is the "listeners' - some music is meant to be played (and actively engaged with), not passively "heard" in isolation.

And of course there are different degrees of hearing. Sitting down and listening to a concert is very different to having background music in a shopping mall.

By being able to preserve music in the form that was "intended," we have overcome the difficulty of having to play the data that is stored in some other form.

Again, this is full of assumptions; firstly that you know the form in which all music was intended, and secondly that playing data (by which I assume you mean notation) is a "difficulty".

On a secondary level, I sense a misunderstanding as to what musical notation is for.

[debra1rlo]

Beethoven never made a phat beat so f*ck that guy! Looser!

[schnapsglas]

Music is meant to be heard.

Not always.
Much music is written as much for the "performers" as it is the "listeners' - some music is meant to be played (and actively engaged with), not passively "heard" in isolation.

And of course there are different degrees of hearing. Sitting down and listening to a concert is very different to having background music in a shopping mall.

By being able to preserve music in the form that was "intended," we have overcome the difficulty of having to play the data that is stored in some other form.

Again, this is full of assumptions; firstly that you know the form in which all music was intended, and secondly that playing data (by which I assume you mean notation) is a "difficulty".

On a secondary level, I sense a misunderstanding as to what musical notation is for.

Hm, then we have different idea as to what music is. For me, music is art that is done with our aural sensation. I will be like Staniszewski and say (over the top) that if it is not one, it is not music. It is something else. I believe if something lives in one form for final delivery, that is the one we are looking for.

For me, as I said in the post above, music playing in concert and shopping mall is in context of installation.

OK, could you tell me what you might sense to be a misunderstanding?

[Tricky-Loops]

Music is meant to be heard.

Not always.
Much music is written as much for the "performers" as it is the "listeners' - some music is meant to be played (and actively engaged with), not passively "heard" in isolation.

That's why some people are wearing big headphones while playing music -- so that they canNOT hear how bad they're playing their own music...

[vurt]

music isnt the medium, its the message.

[Cimbasso]

People often assume Mozart and Beethoven to be examples of greatness. What's so great about them? I can see thousands of people nowadays writing equally great to them.

Yeah, right.

[Tricky-Loops]

For me, as I said in the post above, music playing in concert and shopping mall is in context of installation.

Music playing in a shopping mall is "marketing". First, you can intersperse advertisement messages in the music program. Second, music speaks to the emotion and makes the buyer acting more emotional (You are tempted to buy more - and unnecessary - things when music plays, because its emotional impact interferes with your rational thinking.)

[JumpingJackFlash]

I believe if something lives in one form for final delivery, that is the one we are looking for.

Why should music have to be "delivered"?
And exactly what does that entail?

we have different idea as to what music is.

Indeed, and that's the point. - As I said in my initial post, it's all subjective, relative and dependant on context.

You can't say that X is great and Y is poor, all you can say is you personally like X and dislike Y.

500 years ago, people's idea of what constituted "music" was very different. Likewise, what constitutes music in Africa is different to what constitutes music in an Italian opera house. What constitutes music in a catholic cathedral is different to what constitutes music in a strip club, and what constitutes music in a classical recital is very different to what constitutes music on MTV

[tomtoo]

music isnt the medium, its the message.

++

[vurt]

the worldclassicaland symphonic music lives in today is a funny one, the fans/listeners call em what you will, will tell you how great the music is, but show up at a concert and they dont like outsiders!

many years ago, afriend and i attended an evening of new music, organised by a couple of girls we knew who had done some cello stuff for us in a different project.
so we turned up, front row as vip guests, and this guy sat next to us turns to his friendand says "my daughter puts on an evening and these two cant ven be bothered wearing shoes, let alone suits haha, scruffy bastards"
so im a little irked, but then out comes dina and introduces the musicians, then reads a list of the composers work they will be doing, so w all applaud and settlein for the evenings music. which is most;y pretty good, some not really my thing, too twee if that makes ense?
but anyway, she then introduces a piece composed by barne and wright who are in th room tonight, so the applause is again brief and into the music, a final piece for the evening, also by barnes and wright. at this point the guy turns and says to uas, "how can you be so rude as to not applaud" as dina invites barnes and wright up to take a bow. so che (real name charles) and i took to the stage to rceive our applause :bows:
to be honest, i only gave him a bit of feedback on the pieces, he wrote em all and just gave me credit
was still nice to have us introduced to her father after the music

[Musicologo]

Already made some revisions and corrected some inaccuracies. Keep them coming and thanks for all the feedback and ideas!

[VariKusBrainZ]

Music has always been in the hands of the people.
We've fashioned whistles and drums etc for 1000s of years.
Failing that we whistle and slap body parts.
We've just jumped from the fallible human memory to perfect digital playback.
Though I feel music has moved on from choosing the right notes to creating a sound pallet in many cases, perhaps due to there no longer being a limited choice of sounds.
Plus its easier to slap a noise over a breakbeat.
Everything sounds good with breakbeats

[fmr]

But to go back to the topic: Do the radio stations play all the same stuff because it's GREAT music? Or do they get money for playing the same songs over and over? Or don't they have enough time to comb through the net in search of independent artists? Or does the majority wants to listen to the same songs every day, so that they can memorize the lyrics of all top 20 songs?

I'm pretty convinced they are paid to do that, of course. Music market and music industry is impoverished and impoverishing because of bad management and bad decisions, and THAT is one of them.