Things I hate about... - Cubase 7

[dgkenney]

There is only real industry standard. PT.

(...runs and hides like Salmon Rushdie and waits for an ironic and clever PT quip from Roscoe's best friend Dan ... )

Sorry for the delay. I just came to from a chocolate-bunny-eating coma. And another thing...when did Boscoe change his name to Roscoe. Did Cubase7 do that? Never would have happened in PT.

Dan

[cubic13]

Hi all,

Just stumbled on this thread and, even if I don't have exactly the same gripes against C7 as Compyfox, I must agree with the essential : C7 is flawed.

FWIW, C7 is stable, here, and even remarkably so, at least in its 64 bits flavor. The issues aren't there for me...

1) There are major regressions, UI wise, in the project window.
First : Steiny removed the 'Appearance/Work area' page and reduced to its most simple expression the 'Appearance/General' one. Results :
- One of the feature that was making Cubase so special for me has disappeared : the ability to tweak as desired the display intensity of each of the 3 grid levels vertical lines as well as the horizontal one. This for the project window, but also for the editors ones.
- The display intensity of the buttons is also no more tweakable.
- You have to fight with the new color thingy to get more or less what was easily done with the previous system.

Second : they added a horrible white mask to the project cursor, which makes it all blurry and nearly unusable with my ageing eyes. This alone is nearly a showstopper for me. After several hours of testing, I simply can't get used to it.

Third : they put a shiny white background for the 'Overview line'. No matter what you try, you have just to accept it, even if it doesn't fit with the other color schemes that you patiently tried to set.

Fourth : the 'R/W' buttons of the FX/group tracks remain displayed, no matter the vertical size of them.

So, I made 2 threads about these and 3 feature requests on Steinberg.net, in an attempt to entice fixes : 2 of the FRs were quickly burried in the 'Miscellaneous' subforum... What is worse is that, at least with 7.0.1, the "Appearance/Work Area' features were still present and defined in the preferences 'Defaults.xml' file. And the removed features are still supposed to be used, as they clearly appear in the C7 Operation manual, p.704-705...
In anger, I retrieved my old C5 DVDs box, reinstalled it and updated it to its 5.1.1 (64 bits) version which, IMO, has the best Cubase UI ever. How refreshing and responsive ! I use it even more than C6.5, presently.

2) I won't talk about the MixConcole. Compyfox already clearly stated the issues with it...

3) It takes ages to load a template based project, especially if you have samples based VSTis configured in it. As an example, loading an EMulatorX 380Mb samples bank takes :
- 9 s with C5.1.1
- 19 s with C7.0.2
Why the difference ?

4) The Generic Remote Editor is useless, unless (and maybe) you are lucky enough to have one of the RCs that appear in the very restrictive list in it (actually, only 4...). This was probably the thing that decided me to upgrade, hoping that it would allow me to configure my 2 controllers in a less complicated way than what was available in the 'Device setup' window. To no avail and it is also buggy : tweaking it trying to get something useful of it, leads me to my only C7 crash until now. I gave up, since...

5) ASIO guard doesn't work as expected : actually, deactivating it gives better ASIO performance. About this, the resources taken by C7 are significatively higher than even C6.5.


So, what's left ? The chord tracks... Not enough to make C7 my day to day host tool. C7 will remain (forever ?) as a 'still under test' Cubase version and it's the first time that I feel this about a new one since the SL/SX2 days.

As one of my beloved Nick Cave songs says : "ugly, useless and overinflated"...

For serious and efficient work, back to C5.1.1 and 6.5.4...

[Compyfox]

Are you sure about that. Wavelab 7 was the one I had, or was it six where they added the sonnox plus? I seem to remember it was an ugly setup, but I am sure it could do 24/96 montage. Don't suppose it really matters but it bugs me when my memory is off!

Ugly and Sonnox was (IIRC) WL7 indeed. Then I must be stupid. Then again, I still find Cubase more intuitive for working in higher sampling rates. Especially Multitrack.

I think Steinberg should have waited longer before first release. 7.0.0. was a mess.

It still is with 7.0.2!

1) There are major regressions, UI wise, in the project window. ....
- One of the feature that was making Cubase so special for me has disappeared : the ability to tweak as desired the display intensity of each of the 3 grid levels vertical lines as well as the horizontal one. This for the project window, but also for the editors ones.
- The display intensity of the buttons is also no more tweakable.
- You have to fight with the new color thingy to get more or less what was easily done with the previous system.

I ask myself as well, why that was dropped. Seeing things in C7 is a mess. You can barely control anything UI wise (except for the simpler Meter setup), you can't tone down the fader caps, you can not(!) change the mixer (even though I've seen a blue design on an official Steinberg Youtube video?! The hell?), etc.

It makes things incredibly hard to read on certain ends.

And instead of offering RGB values, all we get is "hue/saturation" at most with certain GUI elements.

In anger, I retrieved my old C5 DVDs box, reinstalled it and updated it to its 5.1.1 (64 bits) version which, IMO, has the best Cubase UI ever. How refreshing and responsive ! I use it even more than C6.5, presently.

This is actually sad that earlier Cubase versions just work better UI wise.

2) I won't talk about the MixConcole. Compyfox already clearly stated the issues with it...

Oh, I got a new one: Channel Freeze!

Why the funk(!) can't there be a button on the edit window as well, or on the MixConsole, to freeze a WAV channel or even instrument/VSTi channel?!

No, this only goes through the Inspector, but it does at least "light up" with a snowflake at the bottom of a channel strip in the MixConsole - not below, as written in the manual.


Streamlined workflow all good and fine. But seriously?
I fear the day I want to "remote control" the Control Room with a BCF or something like that. I'm sure it won't work, because it's just like that.

4) The Generic Remote Editor is useless, unless (and maybe) you are lucky enough to have one of the RCs that appear in the very restrictive list in it (actually, only 4...). This was probably the thing that decided me to upgrade, hoping that it would allow me to configure my 2 controllers in a less complicated way than what was available in the 'Device setup' window. To no avail and it is also buggy : tweaking it trying to get something useful of it, leads me to my only C7 crash until now. I gave up, since...

Didn't look at the new setup panel yet with my BCR. But I heard several horror stories already.

I think Steinberg is forcing the users to go for their own Remote Series rather than what's out there and worked FOR YEARS already. This is the only explanation I have.

On top of going "touch sensitive" with the MixConsole.


Who of us has a Wacom Touch LCD to control Cubase?
And while we're at it - why only iOS as control device, why not Android as well?! Oh wait, Android is not "as restricted in terms of configuration as the iPad - so configuring/coding would be way harder". Ooooh-kaaaaay~!

5) ASIO guard doesn't work as expected : actually, deactivating it gives better ASIO performance. About this, the resources taken by C7 are significatively higher than even C6.5.

Did not test that actually. But I did see a raise in ASIO usage compared to earlier Cubase versions. Then again, I also saw the other way around. So I left in on by default.

So, what's left ? The chord tracks... Not enough to make C7 my day to day host tool. C7 will remain (forever ?) as a 'still under test' Cubase version and it's the first time that I feel this about a new one since the SL/SX2 days.

I didn't even dive into the Chord Track, the VST Expression 2 and certain other C7 exclusive features other than the new Mix Console yet.

However, I once more feel as guinea pig for Nuendo users. But without "us" Cubase users, both Nuendo and Sequel wouldn't have even existed in the first place. And this is what ticks me off!

Create a host, and then ultimately abandon it for "higher paying customers". Sure... The Harmonic EQ is actually in Wavelab (but can't be copied over, the Sonnox Plugins can be btw!), and Surround Features in Cubase can be MASSIVELY enhanced with the likes of custom Surround Panners by IOSONO (added to a current Nuendo license) and New Audio Technology. The rest is minimal, really.



Yamaha all good and fine. But I really feel like being a Steinberg User in Pinnacle days lately. Though with Pinnacle days, Steinberg at least listened to their paying customers.

[cubic13]

Hi, Compyfox

Seems that we are both more or less on the same track, sadly...

Putting aside all the MixConsole issues, what I still don't get after several years is why Steiny keeps on removing features that were perfectly working, as they were absolutly in need of taking back in one hand what they give us in the other. Just An example : the transparent events display (removed since C6) that I am enjoying to use with 5.1.1... The preferences 'Appearance/Work area' page is, among others, the last one from a long list.

Problem is that such a discussion is not possible on Steinberg.net forums : either the Steiny fanboys immediatly intervene to state how much you don't know how to use Cubase or your thread is burried in some obscure subforum where only few fellows get in, this without answer or warning. And we are still seeing several threads praising the 'New-Steinberg-Responsiveness-To-Users-Inquiries'...

So, still hoping that someone in Steiny crew will react, even without stating it (I have no more illusions about their behavior, despite all the claims on Steiny forums), I'll keep on supporting your thread and all others, here or elsewhere, demonstrating that they are on a wrong track.

All the best !

[CableChannel]

I don't like the new mixer. It's just a big waste of space. All the unimportant things like borders, margins, etc. have grown. Mute/Solo/Edit buttons are huge, like on a senior's cellphone! And the most important thing, the scale and the printed dB value underneath are just unreadble tiny. Man thats bad!

Otherwise C7 is giving me a good time. Very stable and fluid working.

[Compyfox]

The even more sad thing is:
I'm currently using the Mix Console in "window mode", to get back the usability to have "on top" VST plugins open. And more than one.

Now, if you don't use a Dual Screen setup with actual 16:9 LCDs (I still have two 16:10s) and very small windows borders, no taskbar and the likes... THEN you can get the most out of the new console.

But "fullscreen" simply doesn't work like it should. Copied from ProTools(!), but then usuability... pft.


cubic13:
Ever tried writing them a support mail? I don't have any hopes as they usually don't respond to that either. But it's still better than using the non-support forum.

Then again, there are a couple of Steinberg representatives here on KVR - I'm surprised that nobody of them jumped in so far and said "we take note, please also file an official support ticked just in case".

[cubic13]

...
cubic13:
Ever tried writing them a support mail? I don't have any hopes as they usually don't respond to that either. But it's still better than using the non-support forum.

Then again, there are a couple of Steinberg representatives here on KVR - I'm surprised that nobody of them jumped in so far and said "we take note, please also file an official support ticked just in case".

Problem is that what I have experienced with C7 so far aren't issues per se, but rather features and workflow regressions. So, I doubt that Steiny support service could be of any help. But maybe you're right : a direct mail to one of the Cubase product managers is worth a try ; I don't know.

And don't be surprised that there are no Steiny representatives to chime in : they are specialists to avoid any discussion about features implementations in their products or changes made in them. After all these years, I never saw explanations about dropped features, devices or standards, sadly...

[Amon1973]

cubic13:
Ever tried writing them a support mail? I don't have any hopes as they usually don't respond to that either.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5248483

It appears that others have a different opinion

[Compyfox]

I had support inquiries that took up to two weeks. Last time I had issues with WL7, it took them half a week.

FR wise, I never got any answers. So yes, opinions greatly differ.

[Amon1973]

Compy, just out of curiosity did you install 7.0.3 already? If yes, still having problems?
You're located in Germany, it might be worth trying to call.

Cheers.

[cubic13]

Just sent a private message to Christian Dettner, Cubase planning product manager, about the problems concerning the UI regressions.

Will keep you informed about any eventual answer coming from him.

Cheers,

[Compyfox]

Compy, just out of curiosity did you install 7.0.3 already? If yes, still having problems?
You're located in Germany, it might be worth trying to call.

Cheers.

Until you posted, I didn't even KNOW that there is a .3 version. I mean, I didn't even receive any mail or flashing sign "dude! we've got a new version" while I locked into my user account yesterday.

Did I mention already that the HUB is not working?


Either way, I threw Steinberg a lengthy support mail and pretty much repeated what I said in here. I don't know what that answer will be, if any. But I hope I at least caused a little stir.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

There is only real industry standard. PT.

(...runs and hides like Salmon Rushdie and waits for an ironic and clever PT quip from Roscoe's best friend Dan ... )

Sorry for the delay. I just came to from a chocolate-bunny-eating coma. And another thing...when did Boscoe change his name to Roscoe. Did Cubase7 do that? Never would have happened in PT.

Dan

Regions > Clips

That was the straw which broke this camels back

I slip, trim, edit, spot and whatnot them Regions since DAW immemorial and then that shit! Oh No, No, No. Clips are things I mess about with inside of Live with devices and racks, Not PT. Region is the standard of industry not bleeding Clips

So I can easily see LawrenceF's typo coming real Dan mate

[lotus2035]

Compy, just out of curiosity did you install 7.0.3 already? If yes, still having problems?
You're located in Germany, it might be worth trying to call.

Cheers.

Until you posted, I didn't even KNOW that there is a .3 version. I mean, I didn't even receive any mail or flashing sign "dude! we've got a new version" while I locked into my user account yesterday.

See if you had read though the posts properly you would have seen that I mentioned 7.0.3. on the 30th.
You even responded to the 2nd part of the same post!

You bumped this thread on the 29th which is the same day 7.0.3. was released I just assumed that you had installed it and were still having problems.

In any case 7.0.3. has a long list of bug fixes included. Check it out dude.

[FrankT]

The Generic Remote Editor is useless, unless (and maybe) you are lucky enough to have one of the RCs that appear in the very restrictive list in it (actually, only 4...). This was probably the thing that decided me to upgrade, hoping that it would allow me to configure my 2 controllers in a less complicated way than what was available in the 'Device setup' window. To no avail and it is also buggy : tweaking it trying to get something useful of it, leads me to my only C7 crash until now. I gave up, since...

Which 4 RCs are listed?
4 is very meager in deed...!