Wow, I had no idea there were so many updates. Haven't fixed my number one issue yet though it seems
Ableton live 9 released
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- KVRian
- 777 posts since 13 Dec, 2011
Missing PDC for automation of plug-ins and the entire GUI is the most prominent one, and most important to users in general, I'd guess. There are many other problems with automation in general, e.g. resolution and update frequency of automation breaks down completely with tempo changes and/or shallow curves; lack of decent support for (VST) plug-ins: displaying values on a 0.00 to 1.00 range gives you even less precision than 7 bit MIDI CC#. More generally: information provided by Live on its GUI can not be trusted; in many cases it is misleading and incorrect.neverenoughfunk wrote:could you elaborate on "the many legacy bugs from 8.x"... i.e. examples...Ch00rD wrote:Indeed, that seems to have dominated Ableton's choice to release Live 9.x at this point in time, with most of the many legacy bugs from 8.x still in there.hibidy wrote:Hell, butwig might be out by thenKaboom75 wrote:Shit I forgot about the pre order discount. I decided to delay it so I could afford Slate compressors and DMG Audio Equilibrium. I got way more than I was expecting with my last buy so I'm not bothered.
Most purchases of Push are expected delivery in June 25th.
Another part of the explanation seems to be using Push as a very flashy distraction for Ableton repeating the exact same dramatic pattern as with the 8.0 release - in spite of having promised Live users that outstanding issues would get fixed before adding new features (heck, we now even see new products), and that measures would be taken to prevent such a thing from happening again. Go figure...
I've personally reported many dozens of bugs for Live 9.x (and have dozens more that I haven't even reported yet), way too many to list here in any case, and in the vast majority of cases, they also happen in Live 8.x. I'd recommend checking out the Live 9.x beta forum to look at the long list of (acknowledged) issues before buying.
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- KVRian
- 715 posts since 3 May, 2007 from UK
1. Assignable key commands. Glad we got "zero" for mute finally but why not "m" as in Logic? or, indeed whatever we want it to be? The zero key ain't the best. You have to move your hand from it's usual home on the CTRL/CMD keys, so it still not efficient for something you need CONSTANTLY:(
2. Being able to select multiple tracks and/or groups for mixing down multiple files (in the render dialog). At the moment you can do all or just one. Why not be able to check a selection of tracks so you can go for a walk and your stems, and sends are waiting for you in a folder when you get back?
3. Ability to organise plugins and hide ones you don't use. Why no plugin favourites folder? Do i really have to make racks of everything?
4. Dual monitor support - I mean, come on....!
5. PDC... nuff said, it's critical for so many plugins and automation situations.
6. Turn off the annoying autoselect behaviour. Why does making a loop in the arrange so often select everything on screen? For what purpose is this deemed useful? Sooo annoying and I have never seen a use or value for it. For something critical like copying/cutting/duping the entire arrangement, I don't mind spending 3 seconds defining my own selection so I'm sure I'm getting exactly what I want. Selecting everything on screen is not something you need to do very often duing a session and I wish they would lose it as it wastes more time than it's ever saved.
7. New Compressor stops working randomly using the sidechain/eq.
8. Why no extended functionality for groups. I was expecting groups sends, group freeze and nested groups. Why not?
9. New EQ even with an analyser built in is next to useless because you can only have it open on the track which you are working on and there is next to no customisation, readouts or interaction for it.
10. The new broswer doesn't seem to scan newly created files. I make a bounce and then can't find it in the browser to import into the project. I have to resort to dragging it in from the finder now? wtf?
11. Give us a frikking lfo? I mean wtf, why no basic "taster" M4L devices in standard? The suite package doesn't interest me at all apart from Max. Is it really too much to even have an LFO in Live's default midi plugins? It's the only thing I crave from MAX more than any other basic building block and I aint paying 200 euros extra for an LFO.
Most of these features can make or break your workflow and are ESSENTIAL in a modern DAW.
I've been using Live since v.1 and love it, but it could be sooo much better with such SIMPLE additions/corrections. This kind of stuff should be sorted out in a 5 minute ableton meeting, what have they been doing for the last 3 years?
So many of the features are great but half baked. Like a trial 1.0 implementation. Why aren't they extending functionality to the logical conclusion (ie groups freeze, sends, nesting.
Anyone else disappointed by the lack of development in live 8's feature set?
Cheers
Scorb
2. Being able to select multiple tracks and/or groups for mixing down multiple files (in the render dialog). At the moment you can do all or just one. Why not be able to check a selection of tracks so you can go for a walk and your stems, and sends are waiting for you in a folder when you get back?
3. Ability to organise plugins and hide ones you don't use. Why no plugin favourites folder? Do i really have to make racks of everything?
4. Dual monitor support - I mean, come on....!
5. PDC... nuff said, it's critical for so many plugins and automation situations.
6. Turn off the annoying autoselect behaviour. Why does making a loop in the arrange so often select everything on screen? For what purpose is this deemed useful? Sooo annoying and I have never seen a use or value for it. For something critical like copying/cutting/duping the entire arrangement, I don't mind spending 3 seconds defining my own selection so I'm sure I'm getting exactly what I want. Selecting everything on screen is not something you need to do very often duing a session and I wish they would lose it as it wastes more time than it's ever saved.
7. New Compressor stops working randomly using the sidechain/eq.
8. Why no extended functionality for groups. I was expecting groups sends, group freeze and nested groups. Why not?
9. New EQ even with an analyser built in is next to useless because you can only have it open on the track which you are working on and there is next to no customisation, readouts or interaction for it.
10. The new broswer doesn't seem to scan newly created files. I make a bounce and then can't find it in the browser to import into the project. I have to resort to dragging it in from the finder now? wtf?
11. Give us a frikking lfo? I mean wtf, why no basic "taster" M4L devices in standard? The suite package doesn't interest me at all apart from Max. Is it really too much to even have an LFO in Live's default midi plugins? It's the only thing I crave from MAX more than any other basic building block and I aint paying 200 euros extra for an LFO.
Most of these features can make or break your workflow and are ESSENTIAL in a modern DAW.
I've been using Live since v.1 and love it, but it could be sooo much better with such SIMPLE additions/corrections. This kind of stuff should be sorted out in a 5 minute ableton meeting, what have they been doing for the last 3 years?
So many of the features are great but half baked. Like a trial 1.0 implementation. Why aren't they extending functionality to the logical conclusion (ie groups freeze, sends, nesting.
Anyone else disappointed by the lack of development in live 8's feature set?
Cheers
Scorb
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- KVRAF
- 42529 posts since 21 Dec, 2005
You mean live 9 right? Actually, 8 worked great. But I'm sure you meant 9
Yeah, I've said it before, I'll say it again. I'm HIGHLY disappointed. But I'm over it. I did the beta testing (which imho was just shy of joke) I have the product, it is what it is.
Yeah, I've said it before, I'll say it again. I'm HIGHLY disappointed. But I'm over it. I did the beta testing (which imho was just shy of joke) I have the product, it is what it is.
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- KVRian
- 715 posts since 3 May, 2007 from UK
Hey Hibidy
Well, believe it or not, I actually did mean Live 8. As in, why hasn't Live 8's feature set been developed and extended?
Live 9's new features are actually pretty good. It's the lack of development in it's existing features that I think is a great shame.
The group tracks for example: if a group can be frozen and contain it's own sends, cpu would almost cease to be a problem. You could have groups set up and simply freeze whole chunks of your project temporarily to free up nearly all your cpu for any demanding or processor heavy task. One freeze pass instead of multiple tracks which can take an absolute age. What user wouldn't find that of huge benefit?
This is the first advantage I saw in groups that, well, hasn't been taken advantage of!
Also why not groups within groups? It would go someway to provide a multi-lane comping environment for certain users and would be of great benefit.
Drum racks / instrument tracks contain multiple audio streams and have their own sends, it would seem so logical to extend that functionality to groups, I can't for the life of me understand why they haven't done it.
Unfortunately there are loads of niggles and half baked features that any decent developer should be all over. I'm quite frankly baffled why so many of these things weren't done as a matter of course.
I gave up years ago trying to make ableton listen to any ideas to actually improve the software. I think most users feel like they aren't being listened to and haven't been for a very long time. I guess having a monopoly on the market and making cash through add ons and hardware has become a priority over user feedback and functionality.
What a shame
Well, believe it or not, I actually did mean Live 8. As in, why hasn't Live 8's feature set been developed and extended?
Live 9's new features are actually pretty good. It's the lack of development in it's existing features that I think is a great shame.
The group tracks for example: if a group can be frozen and contain it's own sends, cpu would almost cease to be a problem. You could have groups set up and simply freeze whole chunks of your project temporarily to free up nearly all your cpu for any demanding or processor heavy task. One freeze pass instead of multiple tracks which can take an absolute age. What user wouldn't find that of huge benefit?
This is the first advantage I saw in groups that, well, hasn't been taken advantage of!
Also why not groups within groups? It would go someway to provide a multi-lane comping environment for certain users and would be of great benefit.
Drum racks / instrument tracks contain multiple audio streams and have their own sends, it would seem so logical to extend that functionality to groups, I can't for the life of me understand why they haven't done it.
Unfortunately there are loads of niggles and half baked features that any decent developer should be all over. I'm quite frankly baffled why so many of these things weren't done as a matter of course.
I gave up years ago trying to make ableton listen to any ideas to actually improve the software. I think most users feel like they aren't being listened to and haven't been for a very long time. I guess having a monopoly on the market and making cash through add ons and hardware has become a priority over user feedback and functionality.
What a shame
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- KVRian
- 715 posts since 3 May, 2007 from UK
And another thing.....
The spacebar on a laptop is the biggest key, right in front. It might be really useful to assign such a large and prominent key to a useful function in a live situation.
However, it's hardwired to only function as a stop control. On what planet, EVER, has anyone EVER wanted to press stop when playing live? Anyone?
No, I thought not.
In fact I have seen several poor individuals accidentally hit the spacebar while performing and killing entire dancefloors. I have always felt like ableton have put a massive landmine on my keyboard that I need to avoid at all costs and it really takes the joy out of using a qwerty keyboard for triggering stuff.
Since version 1, I've been saying, "can we please disable the space bar and allow it to be assigned to something useful"?
ok, rant over
Cheers
Scorb
The spacebar on a laptop is the biggest key, right in front. It might be really useful to assign such a large and prominent key to a useful function in a live situation.
However, it's hardwired to only function as a stop control. On what planet, EVER, has anyone EVER wanted to press stop when playing live? Anyone?
No, I thought not.
In fact I have seen several poor individuals accidentally hit the spacebar while performing and killing entire dancefloors. I have always felt like ableton have put a massive landmine on my keyboard that I need to avoid at all costs and it really takes the joy out of using a qwerty keyboard for triggering stuff.
Since version 1, I've been saying, "can we please disable the space bar and allow it to be assigned to something useful"?
ok, rant over
Cheers
Scorb
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- KVRian
- 777 posts since 13 Dec, 2011
Well, I do. I want to be able to start/stop all the time when playing live. On every single beat again, even. To me Live is just one of many sequencers, I'm typically not just using one laptop with one fingertip on one parameter at any time. With all due respect to people with different approaches and skill levels, I do pity any performing artist using a sequencer who is unable to handle its start/stop button elegantly enough and inadvertently "killing entire dancefloors" ("we all press play, and we NEVER press stop"?djscorb wrote:And another thing.....
The spacebar on a laptop is the biggest key, right in front. It might be really useful to assign such a large and prominent key to a useful function in a live situation.
However, it's hardwired to only function as a stop control. On what planet, EVER, has anyone EVER wanted to press stop when playing live? Anyone?
No, I thought not.
In fact I have seen several poor individuals accidentally hit the spacebar while performing and killing entire dancefloors. I have always felt like ableton have put a massive landmine on my keyboard that I need to avoid at all costs and it really takes the joy out of using a qwerty keyboard for triggering stuff.
Since version 1, I've been saying, "can we please disable the space bar and allow it to be assigned to something useful"?
ok, rant over
Cheers
Scorb
). But indeed, I'd blame the sequencer rather than the artist. The even bigger flaw here, imho, is that pressing stop does not behave elegantly in Live. In my experience at least, it does not just cut off MIDI notes, allowing the envelope release stages of the instruments used to be heard properly, and allowing the effect tails (reverb, delay, etc.) to be heard, without a good chance of producing nasty artefacts such as clicks and pops. For a product that is supposed to be used for live performances, I expect much better handling of stopping the sequencer playback.
The biggest flaw, perhaps, is not allowing us to remap such a key according to our different preferences and workflows. With Live, it's more of a 'one size fits all' approach, and while I see some good aspects of that approach (such as ease of use, and uniformity between all installed versions of the same software on different users' systems aids exchange of information on how to use the app, which also serves to help Ableton provide support to users) unfortunately that just doesn't fit me well enough.
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- KVRian
- 715 posts since 3 May, 2007 from UK
I realise you're poking fun but not every gig is a dream come true.
There will be situations when there is simply no space for a controller due to the previous act, or the venue being too small, someone spilling beer into your bag and busting your controller etc etc.
You might be forced to use only the qwerty keyboard to make the best of a bad situation. It's dark with flashing lights, you can't see very well, your hands are sweaty. I'm sorry but it could be easier than you think to mis-strike a key or brush something you didn't mean to. The ability to disable the spacebar as a stop control in these situations would make the whole experience a lot more user friendly.
I remember when they added the play function to the timebar so that when you use it to scroll through the arrange view, your mouse is dangerously close to restarting the set from another point in the timeline. I couldn't believe it when they did this, yet another landmine for live performances!
I saw friends of mine do just this to a packed dancefloor at their debut live gig back in 2004 At Mass in London. Yes, you can argue that they should have been more careful with their mouse, but such "traps" shouldn't even be in the software. I wonder how many Live users have accidentally stopped playback during a set due to either accidentally hitting space bar when aiming for another key, or scrolling in the arrange page's timeline?
It's the DJ equivalent of ejecting the wrong deck I guess lol! An amateur mistake for sure, but we've all done it at some point.
Anyway, I think we can both agree on the fact that Ableton should allow you to overide key assignments to suit personal preference.
There will be situations when there is simply no space for a controller due to the previous act, or the venue being too small, someone spilling beer into your bag and busting your controller etc etc.
You might be forced to use only the qwerty keyboard to make the best of a bad situation. It's dark with flashing lights, you can't see very well, your hands are sweaty. I'm sorry but it could be easier than you think to mis-strike a key or brush something you didn't mean to. The ability to disable the spacebar as a stop control in these situations would make the whole experience a lot more user friendly.
I remember when they added the play function to the timebar so that when you use it to scroll through the arrange view, your mouse is dangerously close to restarting the set from another point in the timeline. I couldn't believe it when they did this, yet another landmine for live performances!
I saw friends of mine do just this to a packed dancefloor at their debut live gig back in 2004 At Mass in London. Yes, you can argue that they should have been more careful with their mouse, but such "traps" shouldn't even be in the software. I wonder how many Live users have accidentally stopped playback during a set due to either accidentally hitting space bar when aiming for another key, or scrolling in the arrange page's timeline?
It's the DJ equivalent of ejecting the wrong deck I guess lol! An amateur mistake for sure, but we've all done it at some point.
Anyway, I think we can both agree on the fact that Ableton should allow you to overide key assignments to suit personal preference.
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- KVRAF
- 42529 posts since 21 Dec, 2005
Well, I'd be all for some of the things mentioned. Good luck with that 
The beta experience and the lack of abe presence and the lack of bug fixes during the cycle pretty much convinced me it is what it is.
The beta experience and the lack of abe presence and the lack of bug fixes during the cycle pretty much convinced me it is what it is.
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- KVRian
- 715 posts since 3 May, 2007 from UK
Hmm, i hear you, that really does suck
I haven't vented about ableton for so long (a few years now) and feel better for getting it off my chest anyway.
Won't stop me using it, so on with the show!
I haven't vented about ableton for so long (a few years now) and feel better for getting it off my chest anyway.
Won't stop me using it, so on with the show!
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- KVRAF
- 1594 posts since 16 Jan, 2010 from Denver
Just an fyi for anyone thinking they can recoup some of the cost of push by selling the included intro license, you cant if you already have a live license. You only get the intro license if you currently have no other live license on your account
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- KVRAF
- 4074 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO
I suposse that is true if you order from ableton, but what if you order from a third party?ezelkow1 wrote:Just an fyi for anyone thinking they can recoup some of the cost of push by selling the included intro license, you cant if you already have a live license. You only get the intro license if you currently have no other live license on your account
dedication to flying
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- KVRAF
- 1594 posts since 16 Jan, 2010 from Denver
Its the same, i got mine from music123. There is no intro serial in the push box, only a push serial. Once you register the push serial on your account it will give you an intro license if you dont already have a live license, otherwise it just puts push on your account.
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- KVRAF
- 4867 posts since 18 Dec, 2000
you already have PUSH?!?!ezelkow1 wrote:Its the same, i got mine from music123. There is no intro serial in the push box, only a push serial. Once you register the push serial on your account it will give you an intro license if you dont already have a live license, otherwise it just puts push on your account.
Mine is supposedly going to ship this week.
dw