KVR Audio

PurpleCatfishBettie · Post by **PurpleCatfishBettie** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:41 am

it looks like it also has intersample peaks or somesuch, because the 'DR meter' also says it goes over 0 db. plus, the 'rms' is 7.9 on both left and right.

anyway, love the bass line here, and the 'double-speed' perc bits.

think maybe the kick could have better 'rhythmic flow' in places.

also, a neutral observation on the kick sound. to me it sounds more like an "'80s depeche mode kick" rather than a "'90s chicago/detroit kick".. but even if that is so, it's neither here nor there.

again, that bass line is baddass. kudos!

in any event, my own tracks are often in this same neighborhood on the dr meter, so it's something i'll have to pay more attention to. i'd never thought of these levels as creating a track that's 'too loud to turn up', or is 'losing its pumptential'.

dr meter site: http://www.dynamicrange.de/

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:04 pm

It's so goddamn loud because every frequency is exactly, equally loud. See the spectrogram of this track below.

I suspect MUltraMaximizer or another similar multiband limiter was used. Here is the blurb for MUltraMaximizer:

Multiband limiting is a necessity for many modern styles. MUltraMaximizer is a powerful yet affordable solution for the loudness war!

Turn the input gain up and see what happens! You will get more loudness, a flattened spectrum, and added warmth. All with just a few knobs.

You are definitely getting more loudness and a flattened spectrum but you are also getting damaged, unlistenable audio.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:25 pm

Thank you folks for your comment!

I agree it is very loud and actually MMultiBandLimiter has been (probably over-)used here

. On the other hand I was comparing to some other dubstep stuff and actually I found it's loudness levels to be pretty much the same. I'll check some more recent ones, just in case

.

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:51 pm

MeldaProduction wrote: I agree it is very loud and actually MMultiBandLimiter has been (probably over-)used here . On the other hand I was comparing to some other dubstep stuff and actually I found it's loudness levels to be pretty much the same. I'll check some more recent ones, just in case .

Thanks for your candid response. It could be that because I mostly listen to music from 70s and 80s and rarely listen to dubstep that I find this so extreme. On the other hand, I listen to a wide variety of tracks here in the Cafe and this is one of the loudest I've heard. (I know it's so loud because I have a big volume knob on my amplifier that I had to turn all the way down in order to make this track listenable.)

You pesky kids with your multiband limiters! Stay off my lawn. Grumble...grumble etc.

codec_spurt · Post by **codec_spurt** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:57 pm

seismic1 wrote:
Do I detect some hostility here? I guess I'm lucky I didn't actually disagree with you

That's just me being a bit autistic. I don't see the lines and boundaries the same way as 'neuro-typical' people do. I do a very good job of working around that, but sometimes, in passion, I overstep the mark. If I did, then I am sorry. I really didn't mean to be hostile or aggressive or an asshole. I call it passion. But that can be used as an excuse as well. I never play that card. And if I was an asshole then I was an asshole. Call a spade a spade.

And no, I don't think we actually totally disagreed either, but if we had, that is ok. I admit to massive blind spots in my cognition. I understand why the heavy hitters and the movers and shakers disassociate themselves from me. I am a liability at the end of the day. And that is a very good reason not to take anybody seriously.

I also don't come in at the same angle as a lot of other people. I don't do it to be different, or 'cool'. I'm not so wide of the mark though and often find an unvocal minority agreeing with me. This also makes me a free spirit and individual that can speak his mind. Not unlike the archetype of the fool or the joker in Alchemy. What I lose on one hand...

The role of the joker/fool has been pretty much lost now in our sick society. But that does not mean to say that it is not still a valuable role. To let the King know when he is going too far. When all other men fear him and are too afraid to say anything. To have free reign to be able to say these things without fear of reprisal. It gives and keeps a sense of perspective that even Kings need, to rule effectively. Otherwise they become tyrants.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for you seismic1, as a musician/producer, or human being. Nothing I have heard from you has led me to believe otherwise. If I gave you a different impression, then I failed in my communication.

codec_spurt · Post by **codec_spurt** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:03 pm

fateamenabletochange wrote:Like the music. Tis 7 on the DR Meter, so is not supersquashed, but I'm not sure how many dB it is over, maybe 3 ?? Nothing that a quick re re-pass wouldn't fix, as seismic said.

Point taken. I shall try to be as subtle as you have demonstrated with your admonishment.
Noted well.

I learn from you.

codec_spurt · Post by **codec_spurt** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:07 pm

I just bought Klanghelm's VU meters today to test this stuff out.

http://www.klanghelm.com/VUMT.html

Now, if anyone could give me any pointers as to what I should be looking for...

I understand the theory...

cheers.

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:15 pm

It is totally smashed to pieces volume wise, but a very cool track ... not a huge fan of dubstep, but I think this passes The Test

Peace,
Andy.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:21 pm

codec_spurt wrote:I just bought Klanghelm's VU meters today to test this stuff out.
http://www.klanghelm.com/VUMT.html

Well, we released this one for free (it also seems way more capable) : MLoudnessAnalyzer

Anyway folks, I just compared it to some Skrillex recordings and the results will probably be quite surprising for you. I used a little remaster, but it is lower in volume just under dB, if at all. I used MLoudnessAnalyzer with offset -16dB.

Maximum short-term loudness

Skrillex: +3 to +3.8dB
My experiment: +0.5dB

Integrated loudness

Skrillex: +1.7 to +2.6dB
My experiment: -1.3dB

Loudness range

Skrillex: 2.7 to 5.0dB
My experiment: 3.7dB

So at the end my track is actually way lower in loudness than Skrillex, which I believe is kind of on the top in dubstep these days. The waveforms also looked way more distorted and it sounds that way as well.
Though Skrillex is probably a little too extreme...

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:18 pm

MeldaProduction wrote: So at the end my track is actually way lower in loudness than Skrillex, which I believe is kind of on the top in dubstep these days. The waveforms also looked way more distorted and it sounds that way as well.
Though Skrillex is probably a little too extreme...

If you have time, could you post a Spek (http://spek.cc/) spectrogram of your Skrillex reference track. I don't have any Skrillex in my collection.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:55 pm

Frantz wrote:
MeldaProduction wrote: So at the end my track is actually way lower in loudness than Skrillex, which I believe is kind of on the top in dubstep these days. The waveforms also looked way more distorted and it sounds that way as well.
Though Skrillex is probably a little too extreme...
If you have time, could you post a Spek (http://spek.cc/) spectrogram of your Skrillex reference track. I don't have any Skrillex in my collection.

Ooooo, you're going to love this

. This is my newest mix:

And this is Skrillex (one of them, all of them look basically the same

)

Now that's loudness war!

Though I must say, these spectrograms do not make that much sense as they are in linear scale, not so useful imho.

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:25 pm

Thanks for doing that. I can see Skrillex would probably make my ears bleed.

Your track was a bit quieter than Skrillex's and you went even easier on the limiter on your newest mix.

MeldaProduction wrote:Though I must say, these spectrograms do not make that much sense as they are in linear scale, not so useful imho.

Yes, Samplitude's spectrograms are logarithmic by default which is probably more useful. But Spek is free, multi-platform, and very easy to use.

We can therefore conclude:
1) You are producing normal dubstep.
2) I'm an old man.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:55 pm

Yeah

. Well, Skrillex would probably kill you

. I was just once on a real dubstep party and quite frankly it was hard to survive

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:38 pm

MeldaProduction wrote:Well, Skrillex would probably kill you .

Yes, I'm going to have to wait for the Muzak version of Skrillex in order to appreciate it. Gentle, soothing Skrillex covers that can be played in the dentist's office to calm you down while he is drilling your teeth (Drillex?).

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:54 pm

Frantz wrote:
MeldaProduction wrote:Well, Skrillex would probably kill you .
Yes, I'm going to have to wait for the Muzak version of Skrillex in order to appreciate it. Gentle, soothing Skrillex covers that can be played in the dentist's office to calm you down while he is drilling your teeth (Drillex?).

:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

First dubstep experiment :)