About Monark - reviews & stuff

[Ingonator]

It does sound like sh*t, because oscillators are harsh as f**k, it's an aggressive synth so no wonder it's sh*t for chords playing
Ok
1.Enable editing mode, Go to "Panel/Monark/Monark", disconnect from "Volt" cell PK, GT, and T2
2.Create "Note Pitch" and "Gate" and connect "Note Pitch" to PK and Gate to GT
3.Still at the same place disconnect "Volt" cell from "Out 1", create "Out Port" and "Audio Voice Combiner" and Connect "Audio Voice Combiner" output to Out 1 and Out 2 and then Connect "Volt" cell output to Audio Voice Combiner input
4.Now go to "Panel/Monark" disconnect Out 2 and connect that Out 2 to Second free Out
5. Go back to "Panel/Monark/Moanrk" and disable "Mono" in "Volt" cells properties
6. Go to back to "panel" click on Monark name and in Properties page enable as many voices as you want
7. Go to file and save ensemble as Monark Poly, because I don't now how to make a switch for mono/poly yet, so you will have 2 versions, one normal monophonic and one f**ked up Polyphonic

Many thanks for this.

I just had a try and guess what: It works!!!

But something is wrong. If a plucked sound (e.g. Harpsichord) is use the sound continues if the keys are hold. It should stop after the Decay is over. Something to do with the disconnected modules maybe?

when polyphony is set to 6 voices CPU use for a single core is constantly 83% on my system, with a Core 2 Quad Q6600 (4 x 2.4 GHz) CPU. overall CPU use in Windows is around 21%


Ingo

[olikana]

]actually, probably just reaktor owners, as i imagine you cant modify monark without it, sorry.

arrgh these are exactly the type of questions i wanted to ask before buying. oh well i'll try pester NI for a poly option. if not i'll resell it and keep an eye out for a k9 deal.

[PAK]

everything else sounds pretty much the same (different values but easily adjusted if you know what you're doing). only minor differences i note in pink noise (a bit more boomy) and square wave (which i morphed to better match )...but if it wasn't for the great overload and FM i wouldn't bother keepin it already owning diva.

They can appear superficially similar, but there's clear differences IMO.

A lot of it has to do with ranges and scaling choices. EG Monark lets through more resonance whilst hanging on to the bass end more. It seems like a small thing, but it makes copying a lot of classic Minimoog sounds (and hardware analogue bass sounds in general, actually) more difficult with Diva.

I remember posting the "West End Girls" bass sound as an example of this when the very first Diva public beta was released. This is a simple sound which is trivial to copy extremely well with Monark, but which is difficult to get right in Diva. In fact you can't really do it "properly".

Diva's Moog model also has a "buzzy/fuzzy" quality to the sound. I don't know if it's how they modelled the level going into the filter or something, but it's always there and I also mentioned it on KVR within the first days of the Diva public beta. Reducing osc mix levels and VCA/master levels doesn't really help much and, as you turn down the filter cutoff to escape it, that makes for muffled sounds in comparison to Monark. It's almost like a crude version of Monark's Load knob turned full up permanently. That makes a real difference for more plain "raw" type of sounds, and I often stuck with Diva's MS20 filter model just to help avoid it.

There's lots of other small differences too, much of them to do with tracking and small differences in envelope behaviour. I find Monark often has a bit more punch to it with similar sounds. Much of this is related to the already mentioned resonance differences (more "bite" allowed through in Monark at more closed settings) but not all. Many of the differences don't seem like much on their own, but pick almost any well known Minimoog sound and it usually winds up with Monark not only sounding closer, but taking you there more easily too (though some of Diva's difficulty here is that it has to take more models into account when switching between them).

I don't think Monark's advantages stop at Minimoog bass sounds either. Remember the much maligned "Don't Go" brass in Diva? Monark really shines here IMO, which is no small thing since these sorts of examples extend far into lots of other sounds. The load and feedback aren't small things either. Try to copy the Nu Shooz "I can't wait" bass with Diva and note the difficulty it has in recreating the "knock" of the attack whilst keeping the rest of the sound intact.

I tried to pick some well known (to some) sounds there, so people at least have an idea of the things I'm talking about. I hope, when enough time has passed, Uhe consider going back for a second look at the Moog stuff in terms of the choices in the filters scaling and resonance, as well as feedback, "load", and distortion in general.

Whether all this matters to anyone depends on personal preferences, and whether they find the differences of some hardware is worthwhile. If they're that way inclined then I think they'll be more partial to Monark. But it's nice to have more choices, and the competition is good for everyone. I think the ones who should be more worried aren't software devs, but some of the hardware makers.. especially if the software devs would cooperate with each other in terms of getting better hardware controller support for their software..

[fluxmind]

But something is wrong. If a plucked sound (e.g. Harpsichord) is use the sound continues if the keys are hold. It should stop after the Decay is over. Something to do with the disconnected modules maybe?

Ingo

Not sure I understand what you mean, but it could be because of envelope volume build up, when you play quickly, because I've noticed that, when I played a pad with a long attack, if I switch chords quickly envelope build ups and it doesn't re-trigger, it's a moog thing
I've just experimented a little bit with it and it looks like it works by just disconnecting PK and connecting it to "Note pitch", because in 1st step I disconnected quite alot
BTW I almost have no clue what I'm doing
Edit. It's better to connect Gate to GT too, because it sounds strange with "original" GT connection

[PAK]

I made it polyphonic and it sounds like sh*t,

Phase, voice detune and other variations? Oh wait.. you just thought you could stick it into poly mode.. ah.. right

[fluxmind]

I made it polyphonic and it sounds like sh*t,

Phase, voice detune and other variations? Oh wait.. you just thought you could stick it into poly mode.. ah.. right

Really now I fully understand NI move, because it is not worth CPU cost to make it polyphonic, it's a harsh synth, made to be mean Even if you do detune oscillators it's still quite harsh, but I'm not complaining, you can get great aggressive wacky chord stabs with it

[PAK]

I made it polyphonic and it sounds like sh*t,

Phase, voice detune and other variations? Oh wait.. you just thought you could stick it into poly mode.. ah.. right

Really now I fully understand NI move, because it is not worth CPU cost to make it polyphonic, it's a harsh synth, made to be mean Even if you do detune oscillators it's still quite harsh, but I'm not complaining, you can get great aggressive wacky chord stabs with it

It's a bit on the aggressive side, and some of that was evident in the audio tracks they released as demos. Hardware zealots still have a few small things to cling to

But variation in the voices would honestly remove a bit of what you're complaining about. It's indeed not quite as simple as just hooking all the voices up and getting good results.. hope we might see something along those lines whenever Reaktor 6 shows up (assuming it has better multicore support )

[EvilDragon]

Harsh - yes. Exactly like Memorymoog was!

[Ingonator]

But something is wrong. If a plucked sound (e.g. Harpsichord) is use the sound continues if the keys are hold. It should stop after the Decay is over. Something to do with the disconnected modules maybe?

Ingo

Not sure I understand what you mean, but it could be because of envelope volume build up, when you play quickly, because I've noticed that, when I played a pad with a long attack, if I switch chords quickly envelope build ups and it doesn't re-trigger, it's a moog thing
I've just experimented a little bit with it and it looks like it works by just disconnecting PK and connecting it to "Note pitch", because in 1st step I disconnected quite alot
BTW I almost have no clue what I'm doing
Edit. It's better to connect Gate to GT too, because it sounds strange with "original" GT connection

Hi,

again many thanks for your efforts. The problem is that if i use the Harpsichord sound from my free bank (could be used with a modified ensemble by loading the snapshot bank) the sound continues playing at the Sustain stage but the sustain volume is set to 0 so it should stop there.

The problem with the "Note pitch" module seems to be that the volume is only controlled by that and not by the volume envelope. There is also velocity control with that module: If you hit the keys slightly the volume will stay constant and if you hit the keys hard the sustain level seems to be 0 like it should be for that specific patch. The "gate" module is controlled by velocity too.

The modules originally connected to "PK" and "GT" seem to be quite complex so i guess you will loose more than one feature by replacing it with a simple module. Also some controls at the panel seem to be included with those modules/macros and the "page B" controls too. Those seem to be open so i'll have a look into them.


Ingo

[Ingonator]

So for i did not find a way to make the Monark poly modifications work properly but i'll try again.


Ingo

[hibidy]

You guys are WAY too advanced for me. I only care about two things: does it work, does it sound good when it works.

So far, it does both.

I was really not interested in that kind of discussion (again...) and you could have a look at my long post at page 2 about my opinon on Monark, my own Monark patches, some audio demos and several other stuff.

Anyway somehow with every new synth that uses 0df filters this kind of dicussion is coming up and it usually ends with comparisons to Diva.


Ingo

Discuss away, my point was I don't even understand half of what you guys are saying. That's bad on me, not on anyone else. I'm just very simple. I didn't mean it in anything negative.

[hibidy]

Just a question, has anyone else had issues with the controls? Like switches being hard to grab and drag to the desired setting? They seem kinda stiff and hard to switch.

[Sendy]

Just a question, has anyone else had issues with the controls? Like switches being hard to grab and drag to the desired setting? They seem kinda stiff and hard to switch.

Try some WD-40?

[hibidy]

lolz

[zlatan]

Many of the differences don't seem like much on their own, but pick almost any well known Minimoog sound and it usually winds up with Monark not only sounding closer, but taking you there more easily too (though some of Diva's difficulty here is that it has to take more models into account when switching between them).

I agree !

I'm A/B ing a hardware Minimoog Model D and Monark and it's a VERY good emulation !
Especially the bass sounds have a clear tight punch without getting mushy.


I honestly never expected to even like it and was very surprised it sounded that good and useful !

I'm going to use Monark for ITB projects when I need Minimoog type of bass sounds.