Show me some melody in modern electronic music.

[yoreP]

Nothing can make me believe that (many) people are liking ABBA because of their "killer melodies" and greatness of songwriting. It's all about repetition and marketing - and even younger people have heard ABBA many times on the radio, TV, advertisements, musicals, shopping malls, from their parents...and I include myself, without all those marketing I wouldn't know anything of ABBA...

Not into dance music at all but got to join since I do find this topic very interesting It is also interesting to learn about how people see things differently and though I still don't like about anything in the modern dance music. I do respect people's opinions about it. But to say that ABBA guys aren't good songwriters is a gross misunderstanding which begs to be corrected (it is of course totally different to say that one doesn't like something no matter how great it is).

To me, writing good melodies is not as much about writing hooks but writing interesting melodies that have interesting harmonies and above all, having the ability to write melodies that progress. With this I mean, not a melody that has 4 bars structure and then it repeated a few times before getting another 4 bar melody with the repeating again.
Listen to ABBA's "Thank You For The Music" as an example of what I mean. The melody progresses all the way to CH, no repeating the same melodic pattern all over again. You may like or hate it, that's OK but it it is skillfully built.

[Gamma-UT]

Nothing can make me believe that (many) people are liking ABBA because of their "killer melodies" and greatness of songwriting. It's all about repetition and marketing - and even younger people have heard ABBA many times on the radio, TV, advertisements, musicals, shopping malls, from their parents...and I include myself, without all those marketing I wouldn't know anything of ABBA...

Bzzt. Wrong.

Let's see. How did ABBA get famous? They won Eurovision. Hardly anybody gets famous from winning Eurovision, largely because 99% of the songs in the competition are stunningly forgettable. It's a challenge to recall a melody from a Eurovision entry ten minutes after hearing it.

ABBA's Waterloo was a bit of a surprise. Somebody rolled up with a great song and had it aired to millions of people just once. If it wasn't a great song, no-one would have noticed and ABBA would have joined the long list of Eurovision winners who fade back into obscurity. It took a few weeks to reach #1 in the UK charts but this was a time when it was practically unheard of for a non-US or non-UK artist to have a hit here, so they had practically no marketing. It was all requests to record shops to get a copy, which naturally fed back into radio airplay.

They then managed to deliver several follow-ups. It was only after that you saw marketing swing into action. I think the record company even managed to press the wrong version of Waterloo for a while before realising which one they meant to release.

[A.M. Gold]

I think what I may have gathered from all of this is that I better just stop using the term "dance music" since it seems to have changed meanings in the very long intervening period since I last actually danced to any music. I think "uptempo pop" or "energetic pop" is probably safer terminology for my interests.

To me ABBA IS a "dance band" since I was alive and well when they were at the height of popularity and I know for a fact plenty of people danced to them. I also, as I stated, was never into the house movement and most likely never will be, so it's just an argument I don't want to get into as to what music now does or does not have the "right" to be called dance music.

It's also largely irrelevant to me, apart from the fact that I realize I should use the most current terminology for purposes of communication.

[A.M. Gold]

Nothing can make me believe that (many) people are liking ABBA because of their "killer melodies" and greatness of songwriting. It's all about repetition and marketing - and even younger people have heard ABBA many times on the radio, TV, advertisements, musicals, shopping malls, from their parents...and I include myself, without all those marketing I wouldn't know anything of ABBA...

Bzzt. Wrong.

Let's see. How did ABBA get famous? They won Eurovision. Hardly anybody gets famous from winning Eurovision, largely because 99% of the songs in the competition are stunningly forgettable. It's a challenge to recall a melody from a Eurovision entry ten minutes after hearing it.

ABBA's Waterloo was a bit of a surprise. Somebody rolled up with a great song and had it aired to millions of people just once. If it wasn't a great song, no-one would have noticed and ABBA would have joined the long list of Eurovision winners who fade back into obscurity. It took a few weeks to reach #1 in the UK charts but this was a time when it was practically unheard of for a non-US or non-UK artist to have a hit here, so they had practically no marketing. It was all requests to record shops to get a copy, which naturally fed back into radio airplay.

They then managed to deliver several follow-ups. It was only after that you saw marketing swing into action. I think the record company even managed to press the wrong version of Waterloo for a while before realising which one they meant to release.

Yea, I forgot about that aspect of their history. Thanks for the refresher.

It's also very worthy of note, on the subject of Queen (since they were on the other side of that argument) that immediately after their biggest period of popularity in the US (when their album The Game was current), they completely tanked in the US and were largely never heard from again until, of all things, Wayne's World gave them a brief revival.

Their album right after The Game was Hot Space, which probably sold less than 1/10th as many copies, and although Radio Ga Ga was a brief success later in the 80's, they just were never very big in the US again. Their colossal popularity was mostly in Europe and South America from the 80's on.

But during the period of The Game, they were ALL OVER radio in the US, as big as any act at that time. In spite of that massive exposure, few people in the US were programmed to just go on being interested in Queen. They forgot about them rather quickly.

[arkmabat]

There's always "let her go" by passenger if you're tired of that "produced" sound. It's on itunes top chart for many listed countries...

[A.M. Gold]

I think ghettosynth and I have been on the verge of arguing about this (even though we agree on some points) mostly because there is a tug of war going on about my use of the word "dance", and my defensiveness about whether dance music can still be called dance music and really have that strong song orientation you are describing here.

The essence of my problem isn't really with instrumental dance or club music or whatever you want to call it, it's just with my circumstance of being stuck doing instrumentals in a framework that still is almost exclusively the precinct of songs with vocal top lines rather than being made of all-synth ensembles.

I have an application for my music, but it's not in the right format, and as anyone knows, it's much harder to get a full vocal piece made (even as a demo) than it is to do instrumental music completely ITB.

If that's the case you're pretty much stuffed for making pop music and, realistically, always have been. The only instrumental synth hits I can think of made the pop charts as novelty records. Only a few of them set out as novelty records (for example Popcorn) but after that it's film themes - Axel F and Crockett's Theme - and once the 80s were over you got into EDM territory with Papua New Guinea. And Doop. Remember that?

If I were attempting to earn a crust making music I wouldn't be so fast to set my face against what the audience wants because that's the point the posters claiming it's all down to 'DJs' and talentless, unmusical brats with synths in their bedrooms keep missing. They didn't suddenly erect an electric fence around Nashville to stop the songwriters getting out. Songs still get written and played and aired. But the general public does not, right now, care for their apparent complexity.

I'm right there with ZPH's suggestion of immersion and I think ghettosynth was hinting in the same direction - it's only by attempting to understand what is going on in music that you can really determine whether you can make a go of it in today's market.

I understand what your getting at, but faced with the choice, I'm going to go for hip hop instead of EDM, house, trance, etc.

In both cases I can write purely instrumental music and in both cases I have to restrain my very lyrical, song oriented melodic style and replace it with more repetitive riff orientation.

That's fine, but it's just a stretch for me because, as I said, it constrains my natural instincts. But it's also just another kind of creative challenge which I don't reject out of hand.

I choose hip hop because I honestly think the commercial potential is much higher, and I also have found ways of very effectively searching the internet for current submission opportunities. There are tons of them and I haven't seen any indication they will dry up soon.

[A.M. Gold]

I should probably add, maybe to shed some light on why the f**k this seems like such a big issue to me that it's because I have developed my own uptempo melodic instrumental pop style literally for YEARS, and I have an unbelievable amount of it sitting on my hard drive (almost all still waiting for finished production treatment).

It keeps coming up because it's a shame I can't find anything to do with it, but hopefully I will at some later point in time.

[Gamma-UT]

I should probably add, maybe to shed some light on why the f**k this seems like such a big issue to me that it's because I have developed my own uptempo melodic instrumental pop style literally for YEARS, and I have an unbelievable amount of it sitting on my hard drive (almost all still waiting for finished production treatment).

It keeps coming up because it's a shame I can't find anything to do with it, but hopefully I will at some later point in time.

Mix it. Release it. Get it out there independently. You never know, it might sell.

The cycle has to reverse at some point. It always does because people get bored of hearing the same stuff.






Eventually.

[A.M. Gold]

I should probably add, maybe to shed some light on why the f**k this seems like such a big issue to me that it's because I have developed my own uptempo melodic instrumental pop style literally for YEARS, and I have an unbelievable amount of it sitting on my hard drive (almost all still waiting for finished production treatment).

It keeps coming up because it's a shame I can't find anything to do with it, but hopefully I will at some later point in time.

Mix it. Release it. Get it out there independently. You never know, it might sell.

The cycle has to reverse at some point. It always does because people get bored of hearing the same stuff.




Eventually.

I appreciate the encouragement, and in fact was keen on that idea a few years back.

I've since grown disillusioned with the idea of doing anything without any kind of label support, though. I've become very non-DIY in terms of marketing because I see the vast majority of people fail at it. If I had a way of getting my stuff on Beatport it might work, but that would also require some kind of a label and I'm not sure how to find one that would be interested in my nonconformity.

OTOH, you imply a valid point in that nothing can possibly happen if the music sits on my drive forever. Well, the drive could crash and make the music go poof but I have all the best stuff on the cloud too.

[Gamma-UT]

I've since grown disillusioned with the idea of doing anything without any kind of label support, though. I've become very non-DIY in terms of marketing because I see the vast majority of people fail at it. If I had a way of getting my stuff on Beatport it might work, but that would also require some kind of a label and I'm not sure how to find one that would be interested in my nonconformity.

OTOH, you imply a valid point in that nothing can possibly happen if the music sits on my drive forever. Well, the drive could crash and make the music go poof but I have all the best stuff on the cloud too.

Beatport and nonconformity go together like fish and bicycles. Bleep or someone like that may be a better choice.

I've not researched it but looking at what goes on Beatport, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to set up a label and have it distributed there. Maybe it's brain surgery level. There are aggregators who get stuff onto iTunes etc and seem to operate as a pushbutton operation so I'm thinking that for a small group of people it might be possible to set up a collaborative effort and call it a label for the purposes of marketing. It strikes me that KVR started as a record label...

[A.M. Gold]

Anyway, I want to thank all of you for taking the time to contribute to my therapy/career planning session here.

I think I've resolved to do two things: 1) go back to focusing on making hip hop beats primarily, but 2) as a significant secondary effort, I'm going to look into ways of collaborating to adapt my melodic synth music into vocal music.

I not only have uptempo stuff, but also some stuff I really like that I might roughly refer to as "synth power ballads". Those also really need vocal top lines in order to be marketable.

[A.M. Gold]

Beatport and nonconformity go together like fish and bicycles. Bleep or someone like that may be a better choice.

I've not researched it but looking at what goes on Beatport, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to set up a label and have it distributed there. Maybe it's brain surgery level. There are aggregators who get stuff onto iTunes etc and seem to operate as a pushbutton operation so I'm thinking that for a small group of people it might be possible to set up a collaborative effort and call it a label for the purposes of marketing. It strikes me that KVR started as a record label...

Oh, ok, yea, my impression was similar. I knew BP wanted some kind of "label" that they would then decide if they wanted to clear, but it's not something I've thought about setting up. Maybe it's time to look into that as well.

I hadn't heard of Bleep, but I'll give it a check, thanks.

[Gamma-UT]

Bleep is an offshoot of Warp Records.

I just had a look, Beatport will only keep artists on the roster if they clear $500 a quarter (apparently). To some extent I find this hard to believe as there's a ton of stuff on there I doubt makes any sales. But maybe they just get hoovered off at regular intervals. I'll have to keep an eye on a few of the no-hopers that have posted desperate pleas for attention on some of the subforums ("Pleeeeease follow me on Soundcloud now!" Um, why?) in the past couple of weeks. They seem to be repped by 'labels' that are probably aggregators in disguise.

[Gamma-UT]

Anyway, I want to thank all of you for taking the time to contribute to my therapy/career planning session here.

I think I've resolved to do two things: 1) go back to focusing on making hip hop beats primarily, but 2) as a significant secondary effort, I'm going to look into ways of collaborating to adapt my melodic synth music into vocal music.

I not only have uptempo stuff, but also some stuff I really like that I might roughly refer to as "synth power ballads". Those also really need vocal top lines in order to be marketable.

One other thing that struck me while having a shave is that of international markets. While syrupy and cheesy right now, the Japanese, Korean and Chinese pop scenes are incredibly vibrant. I have zero idea of how you go about getting music in front of their producers, however, or whether they are looking to change their sound.

[A.M. Gold]

One other thing that struck me while having a shave is that of international markets. While syrupy and cheesy right now, the Japanese, Korean and Chinese pop scenes are incredibly vibrant. I have zero idea of how you go about getting music in front of their producers, however, or whether they are looking to change their sound.

Hey, great minds think alike.

I absolutely would like to penetrate the Asian market, staring with Japan. I have a friend who lived there for several years and speaks basic Japanese (who is also an amateur DJ) so I thought about tapping him for some help. But it's as you say---where to begin?

I'm not a big anime fan but I will try watching more of it on the net and see if the music they use is anything similar to what I do or can do.

I deduced that the Japanese in particular might warm to my sound because I know they like things that are both catchy and techy, and I think a lot of my synth music fits that.