Which brickwall mastering limiter?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[metamorphosis]

Good guide man. I'll never care enough about squishing my signal to want to invest heavily in limiters, but Ozone's Intelligent 2 (and occasionally 1) is enough for me- for now...

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[wesleyt]

Theo,

Thanks for that great summary!

I noticed you didn't mention DC8C. What are your thoughts on it?

Cheers!

Wes

[Beatworld]

I noticed you didn't mention DC8C. What are your thoughts on it?

I have DC8C.
My thoughts are that it is a compressor, not a brickwall limiter

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[Beatworld]

That said, my favourite mastering comps are :

1) FG-X comp pre the limiter (Great on Rock, and sone slower styles, my ambient and classical stuff)
2) Elysia Alpha (soooo good on all sources )
3) PSP master comp (super easy to get a great result, just glues everything nicely, very clean, better for dance music than the slate, slate good for rock)
4) Sonoris Mastering compressor (He kindly gave me a second demo, although slow email response) - here is some magic going on sometimes, same with his eq, i don't know what he is doing but the boosts on the EQ in the high region were the smoothest out of all the others i tried, (even equilibrium with all the curve types tested). The mastering comp is super clean but again it's not for everything. I say you need 2 mastering Comps for variety.. 2 out of the ones above, any 2, would cover you for all time.

You're on fire Theo !

Have you tried Tokyo Dawn Feedback Compressor II yet ?

I've got Alpha and PSP Master Comp (and others.....)

The Tokyo Dawn offering is simply superb.
Take it for a spin.

[recursive one]

I noticed you didn't mention DC8C. What are your thoughts on it?

I have DC8C.
My thoughts are that it is a compressor, not a brickwall limiter

DC8C has a limiting mode. Manual says that "it is not intended to replace your mastering limiter but may become your first choisce when zero latency brickwall limiting is required".

I never tried using it as a brickwall limiter though. For me it's primarily a track/buss compressor.

[Beatworld]

For me it's primarily a track/buss compressor.

Exactly my experience with it, a job it does very well.

[AC222]

You're on fire Theo !

He certainly is!

Please call me Theo.

The best signature around is back in action! Woohoo!

[AC222]

TB Barricade, Kuassa KratosMaximizer

How good is Kratos? Nobody talks about it. I know the developer is Aradaz but this never seem to get a lot of buzz, which is surprising to me given the fact that a few years back everybody talked about how great his free limiters were.

well i tested it the other day and found it to pump too much.. if my opinion matters.

Barricade on the other hand is superior to so many limiters it's quite incredible what the little 15 euro beast can do.

I also find invisible limiter to be quite visible, i.e, distorting, and allowing isp even in 16x oversample.(tested with apple's mountain lion isp tool and 3 other independent plugin tools from different devs)

After benchmarking every limiter ever released on mac, i always put these in my top 10. All this is in no particular order.

Common knowledge:

-Barricade (latest cross platform version) - The easiest and best for quick master

-Pro-L -need i say more - a true swiss army knife - capable of all your limiting needs

-Ozone 5 intelligent 2 (not convinced with the new 3) - can get nice and loud, watch the character slider

-FG-X (worth it for the compressor, it is almost unbelievable how well it just puts everything together) - will go louder than all of the others, no question, but can not do it without strong distortion. It *can* be on par with the others when set up correctly.. i.e similar loudness and quality. NOTE : this allows through a constant stream of ISP's, more than any other.

-Elephant 3 (Share's Pro-L's hall of fame status.. well, this was the first truly EXCEPTIONAL limiter that can work on ANYTHING you throw at it. Complex to get the best out of it. Comprehensive metering with crest factor.

And the all time classic one and only:

-Waves L2 (just pretend L3 never happened.. L2 has stood the test of time somehow). Distorts more than others but entirely usable in many cases. Easy as pie to use.

a couple rarely mentioned but have surprised me for real:

-T-Racks 4. The silver intelligent one not the yellow (that was a clipper) Yep. I never believed it myself till I finally gave it the time of day. And it has lots of different modes and a tasty clipper too. I use it with oversample on and isp protection. I often go for clean mode, it just works. Not as loud as the loudest - it's around barricade levels.

-MCDSP ML1.. an absolute sleeper hit. Multiple modes again and you will always find something that works on a particular style. Not only that you get my favourite multi band swiss army dynamics tool of all time with it, the ML4000. Note, on Mac they are AU only, and on mac and win, Rtas/AAX. No win vst for example. But a gem. Clean and loud.

-Mellowmuse LM1V.. the demo surprised the crap out of me. I could honestly use just this one and be happy just like most in this list.. it just works.. and is DEAD simple to get correct results.

- BX XL V2. The most unlikely one to list here. In fact i was negative towards it because i used to just push the master up and it sounded terrible. That was my own ignorance and 100% my mistake. It is a very sophisticated piece of art. Everything interacts in a way within it that you must know every single button and it's behaviour to get the best out of it. It has actually gone from my "meh" list to my top 10. Now the key here is the XL (saturation like sonnox inflator), the mid side mode, the mono maker and then the individual mid side levels. It may seem daunting at first, but you have the mid signal split into low and high bands! AND with a crossover and independent OR combined solo. Then you have the side (broadband), solo-able of course also. All have their own attack and release. Furthermore all have their own individual saturation drive and threshold control (use of saturation is key - never just drive the master knob - it simply doesn't work on a whole mix). Finally, there is a lovely little mono maker to tighten up the low end. And you can audition this of course by soling the mid. At the output there is independent level controls for the mid and side to do a final balance. The master output knob sets the ceiling. it is almost impossible to just use the master knobs here to control all bands and get the right result. It's all about utilising everything i have mentioned. This isn't just a limiter, this a true mastering tool that can drastically alter and CORRECT (or ruin) the balance of a mix. It is incredibly powerful, and if you play your cards right and take your time, you'll get it tight, fat and LOUD!


Phew.. that's the ten..I am amused in a way as i never tried to find a top 10 or fit many into a top ten, this is my actual unmanufactured list. It just happens to be 10. The 10 that i could/would use.

I hope that has helped someone.. Feel free to ask any other questions as besides Elephant 3 and the Mellowmuse, i own all the others in the list (mostly due to bundles except Barricade)
I have always raved on Pro-L, but in all honesty, it's not essential to spend that sort of money to get a great limiter after all. In fact, sometimes i'll use a different tool, as i can't find the sweet spot with Pro-L.. It can AWLAYS get you there but you gotta be patient. You can just put a look ahead of 1ms and a fast-ish attack and slow release and 4x OS and pump it, sure, and it will make things reasonably loud and sound perfect. But if you want to get the most out of it, the thing that makes Pro-L what it is, you need to spend time. And the different modes are *drastically* different. Honestly what mode will work on one track , even in the same genre on same album, may not work on the other.

I actually believe, that with the exception of perhaps L2 (ok give it some leeway it's OLD! lol, and the world owes alot to waves for this plug in for so many reasons and why i will always respect them as legends), that you could learn any one of the above inside out and actually get away with only having one. HOWEVER, for normal people who are not full of G.A.S like me, i still recommend 2. And i ALWAYS recommend barricade to be one of those 2 ALWAYS.

Why is that you may ask? Because it's the only one you can instantiate without dong ANYTHING else and drive it and what goes in comes back out without any degradation, only louder. It is the ultimate "i am in a hurry need a quick draft master" out of all of them. However be aware it can't go quite as loud as Pro-L or Elephant. Does it mater? Probably not unless you are obsesses with every last drop of volume.
Others have attempted to do this such as AOL or Kratos, but they have gone even simpler, and IMO they have sadly failed. They are i guess L2 level but no better, and L2 is the simplest to use of the lot (and pumps less than Kratos for sure). I don't like my main mix pumping at the master.. if i want a pumping sound somewhere in the song i'll do it at mix stage.

I've spent a lot of time with limiters.. Probably no where near the time Bmanic has and i consider him a true expert on the topic, he really understands their innards and how they tick, but i really have done alot of testing on my own, and on lots of material, and that list above is and probably always will be the ones i would recommend. I mean i think we have reached a plateau, i don't think this genre are gong to get any better in the future. Of course, i could be wrong.

PS: a VERY honourable mention must be made for Vlad's Limiter6. This is the finest freeware mastering dynamics tool i have tried, but it is not one of the set and forget ones, you need to learn how to use it to get the best out of it. It has a nice comp, loud limiter with isp protection, and can often compete with paid products. I chose not to have it in my own 10 as i didn't feel the need as I have a ridiculous amount of commercial stuff already.. However for those on a budget, don't overlook this.

Wow Theo. That's one heck of a response! That's probably the single best limiter rundown I've seen. Of course your opinion matters! Great to hear it! Also, I was always curious about the Mellowmuse but I had hear they make quality stuff but most people just go for the already popular and proven stuff so you near hear much about them. So nice of you to take the time to enlighten us. Very much appreciated.

AC222

[wesleyt]

I noticed you didn't mention DC8C. What are your thoughts on it?

I have DC8C.
My thoughts are that it is a compressor, not a brickwall limiter

Bah! Of course. That's what I get for posting in the wee hours of the morning as I wait for sleep.

[Resonator63]

And the all time classic one and only:

-Waves L2 (just pretend L3 never happened.. L2 has stood the test of time somehow). Distorts more than others but entirely usable in many cases. Easy as pie to use.

Theo, i'd be interested to hear your opinion on how L1,L2 & L3 compare.
I have L1 but not the other two.Do you not like L3 or is it just that L2 is like a comfy pair of slippers that you're really used to?

[wesleyt]

Edit - Beatworld beat me to it re DC8C.. but anyway:

Well it's not a mastering limiter. ! I didn't click with it at first, but i use it a fair bit now. It's definitely worth a purchase, geez i mean it is so inexpensive, and while you're there grab the vumt, that's like on every single track here, total lifesaver..

I'd be happy to use the DC8C in advanced mode on a master, where i have the control i feel it needs to get the best out of it. I judged it previously too harshly on it's simple modes i'd say.. you've got to explore.

That said, my favourite mastering comps are :

Thank you so much for replying to my off-topic half-asleep reply! I really appreciate it. You responded with more advice than I could have hoped for. I greatly appreciate it.

And I agree with what others have said: your replies in this thread in particular are on fire and invaluable to the community.

Thanks again, Theo!

BTW, two of my favorite brickwall limiters are Barricade and Elephant. I've barely scratched the surface of Elephant. So much to learn.

I use both right now in a drop-in-and-forget manner, with Barricade on channels and Elephant on the master bus. I am still quite a beginner, but this has worked quite well for me so far.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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