The difference is P5 was not Live. BWS is Live, upgraded (technically).aMUSEd wrote:The point is it was doing what people are claiming is Bitwig's great "new" feature years ago.thecontrolcentre wrote:Looks much too busy to me.aMUSEd wrote:
Bitwig's Big Advantage
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- Pick Me Pick me!
- 10234 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from a state of confusion
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- KVRAF
- 5948 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Melbourne, Australia
Rewritten from the ground up, technicallyVitaminD wrote:upgraded (technically).
Peace,
Andy.
... space is the place ...
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- KVRAF
- 1783 posts since 11 Jun, 2005 from Phoenix, Arizona
That might be a big deal in a while. And by that I mean that over the years as Live evolved it seems as though some of the user requests went un-addressed maybe due to how things were coded at the beginning. Maybe starting from scratch they can avoid some of those pitfalls.ZenPunkHippy wrote:Rewritten from the ground up, technicallyVitaminD wrote:upgraded (technically).
Peace,
Andy.
FWIW, I think they (BW's) have accomplished a lot in a short period of time.
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Echoes in the Attic Echoes in the Attic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=180417
- KVRAF
- 11999 posts since 12 May, 2008
I'm going to make a huge guess as to something that I think I'm going to like much better in Bitwig - The built-in sound library. That's right, I know almost nothing about bitwig apart from the videos I've seen, but I can already tell I'm going to like the sound of the devices much more.
I use almost entirely VSTs in Ableton even though I own the suite, but I do try to get into the built-in stuff, it just leans so far towards harsh, digital and cold. Even with V9, most melodic presets are just brutal in the high frequency stuff. I think maybe Ableton's sound designers have lost their high frequencies from too much clubbing. It's not just with synth sounds, the sampled material is usually just plain awful. Operator can sound awesome but it takes some work to make it not to harsh. I've never liked any distortion in Ableton, not many of the effects like the reverb and chorus and modulations.
I understand the synth developer is the guy that did Surge? Sounds like there will be an advantage there. I will never miss the Ableton devices, except maybe grain delay, but there are replacements. I have to say though, I'm perfectly happy with the mixing tools in Live (EQ, compressors) and also the drum library with 9 is quite good. Mixed with the Push workflow, I'd need similar workflow for drum racks and Push integration in Bitwig before I moved over.
I use almost entirely VSTs in Ableton even though I own the suite, but I do try to get into the built-in stuff, it just leans so far towards harsh, digital and cold. Even with V9, most melodic presets are just brutal in the high frequency stuff. I think maybe Ableton's sound designers have lost their high frequencies from too much clubbing. It's not just with synth sounds, the sampled material is usually just plain awful. Operator can sound awesome but it takes some work to make it not to harsh. I've never liked any distortion in Ableton, not many of the effects like the reverb and chorus and modulations.
I understand the synth developer is the guy that did Surge? Sounds like there will be an advantage there. I will never miss the Ableton devices, except maybe grain delay, but there are replacements. I have to say though, I'm perfectly happy with the mixing tools in Live (EQ, compressors) and also the drum library with 9 is quite good. Mixed with the Push workflow, I'd need similar workflow for drum racks and Push integration in Bitwig before I moved over.
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- Pick Me Pick me!
- 10234 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from a state of confusion
I hope you got the point I was making at least...ZenPunkHippy wrote:Rewritten from the ground up, technicallyVitaminD wrote:upgraded (technically).
Peace,
Andy.
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- KVRAF
- 5948 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Melbourne, Australia
Yes, I got the point ...VitaminD wrote:I hope you got the point I was making at least...ZenPunkHippy wrote:Rewritten from the ground up, technicallyVitaminD wrote:upgraded (technically).
Peace,
Andy.
... space is the place ...
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- KVRian
- 989 posts since 27 Jun, 2011
No offense but I didn't. How do you mean "upgraded"? Live is in most respects far more developed as a full fledged DAW than Bitwig will be in the forseeable future. As such I don't see any 'upgrades' at all. Live is a finished product, and if nothing else, Live 9 has shown that in the eyes of Ableton, there's not much left to add to it beyond 80GB of samples and audio to midi.VitaminD wrote:I hope you got the point I was making at least...ZenPunkHippy wrote:Rewritten from the ground up, technicallyVitaminD wrote:upgraded (technically).
Peace,
Andy.
Yes, Bitwig appears to have clip slots and drum racks, but beyond that I really don't see any similarities, at least so far. I acually get more of a Renoise vibe from the videos, which is actually one reason I like it.
Yes, you could philosophize whether Bitwig is the alternate reality product if Ableton had chosen, back with say, Live 4 or 5 or so, to emphasize other conceptual elements of Live more than the ones they did and to implement certain other requested features instead of the ones they did, but that's very hypothetical and quite a strech if you're connecting the two products in that way.
Other than that, that the same bunch of coders that forged core elements of the recent versions of Live will turn out certain comparable or similar concepts in their new endeavours is hardly surprising. They are who they are, and Ableton owns their work, not their talent. If it's not proprietary IP, it's free to use, copy and improve, and rightfully so.
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- KVRAF
- 1783 posts since 11 Jun, 2005 from Phoenix, Arizona
Never felt that way to me. It has always felt like a jumble of great ideas left unpolished/refined. And that's not to say its not useable. Of course it is and for many people.wasi wrote:...Live is a finished product...
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Echoes in the Attic Echoes in the Attic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=180417
- KVRAF
- 11999 posts since 12 May, 2008
I have to agree. Although I'm quite happy in my workflow with Ableton Live, it seems to me that every good idea is half-assed/half-finished.UncleAge wrote:Never felt that way to me. It has always felt like a jumble of great ideas left unpolished/refined. And that's not to say its not useable. Of course it is and for many people.wasi wrote:...Live is a finished product...
Maybe he meant it's "finished" as in Bitwig will destroy it?
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- Pick Me Pick me!
- 10234 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from a state of confusion
Yeah it feels unpolished to me too.. I think the anti-crashing-host plugin 'safety net', full PDC, and dual monitor support really are things Live should have had from many versions ago.
At this point, just by using Live, I get the feeling the code must be a convoluted mess of patchwork from multiple devs coding in different ways.. spaghetti code. It is probably a nightmare to work with.
That alone would give ME reason enough to start coding Live 'reborn' under a new name.. You get to start fresh with all the knowledge you got from version 1 to 8 or so and build the platform as intended. It is probably a joy to deal with that code now. OF course I'm speculating
But I do get a sense that is the reason a lot of things in Live aren't there or are but in a less refined manner..
At this point, just by using Live, I get the feeling the code must be a convoluted mess of patchwork from multiple devs coding in different ways.. spaghetti code. It is probably a nightmare to work with.
That alone would give ME reason enough to start coding Live 'reborn' under a new name.. You get to start fresh with all the knowledge you got from version 1 to 8 or so and build the platform as intended. It is probably a joy to deal with that code now. OF course I'm speculating
But I do get a sense that is the reason a lot of things in Live aren't there or are but in a less refined manner..-
- KVRian
- 1336 posts since 21 Dec, 2004
For the last year all I've been seeing is bitwig threads and how awesome it will be.
A flying car powered by water would be cool too, but which will come first???
If its not the Super DAW everyone has worked it up to be, it will be a cat-astrophy! My session views in Live run pretty wide, can't see what squishing it on one window with arrangement will get me.
Just give me the demo already.
A flying car powered by water would be cool too, but which will come first???
If its not the Super DAW everyone has worked it up to be, it will be a cat-astrophy! My session views in Live run pretty wide, can't see what squishing it on one window with arrangement will get me.
Just give me the demo already.
"I am a meat popsicle"
Soundcloud Vondragonnoggin
Soundclick Wormhelmet
Soundcloud Vondragonnoggin
Soundclick Wormhelmet
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- KVRian
- 1290 posts since 13 Mar, 2007
P5 was great ; holy missed opportunity batman ( But CAKEROL is the usual corporate stupid fest from now on , soooooo..)
Help us wit big , give us that DAW that will satisfy all our music production cravings and proclivities !!!
Common , can't you see the $$$ is burning a hole in this guys pockets ????
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Help us wit big , give us that DAW that will satisfy all our music production cravings and proclivities !!!
Common , can't you see the $$$ is burning a hole in this guys pockets ????
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Financial solvency and KVR Mix as well as oil and water.
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- KVRian
- 1302 posts since 9 Oct, 2003 from California
I'm saving up for V3 of Bitwig. That's when the really cool stuff is going to be released. I have it on good authority.
He didn't want to reveal the product map at first but I learned from bumper stickers to question authority .... so he finally had to tell me
Dan
He didn't want to reveal the product map at first but I learned from bumper stickers to question authority .... so he finally had to tell me
Dan
Those that can, do. Those that can't, argue about it on k-v-r
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- KVRAF
- 21348 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from Gone
Probably worth investing it in a 401k while you wait then...dgkenney wrote:I'm saving up for V3 of Bitwig. That's when the really cool stuff is going to be released.
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- KVRAF
- 10170 posts since 2 Jan, 2005 from somewhere in the woods
... and it's always in beta. recently i almost spat the coffee on the keyboard and i had hiccups then, when i tried to load a new project after having used Sampletron in the one before and Live 9 crashed the same way as Live 8.UncleAge wrote:Never felt that way to me. It has always felt like a jumble of great ideas left unpolished/refined. And that's not to say its not useable. Of course it is and for many people.wasi wrote:...Live is a finished product...
Moreover Live 9 loads slowly and saves slowly ... chrrrchrrrchrrr
"It dreamed itself along"