One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

[evo2slo]

What do you think? More or less effect? On a scale from 1 to 10 (10 = max use of effects)?

My personal opinion is that it should either be a 1 or a 10. All or nothing. Anything in between muddies the waters, as there is so much grey area. I like the idea of no plugs at all, so that only the synth itself is heard. But I also like to use these contests as a way to practice and learn about different mixing techniques. It has been a real eye opener for me what is possible with just free or stock plugs.

If we are allowing plug-ins, I think we should consider allowing the ones included in the Computer Music bundle, as they are easily accessible to everyone at this point.

Still, I think it would be interesting to try a one-time contest with no plug-ins allowed at all (except a limiter on the bus) just to see what happens.

[bjporter]

To the comp : I like the restrictions in these comps. Although every now and again, being a VST / Preset junky, I think - aw gee, I'd love to use a bit of this or that synth. But the comp restrictions make you work harder. I kinda fall away or get bored when I'm programming sounds as there are usually such awesome banks out there by pro designers. I'd never get anything in if i were designing soudns, too.

So what might be a nice idea is to hear old OSC tunes revisited with new VST synths or Effects. Most of the stuff I submit are ideas for tunes rather than complete pieces. I can't say I haven't gone back and revisited a tune, but a comp where Old Tunes are rejigged in whatever way we want might be a good idea - just to relieve those entrants who do feel restricted. Perhaps the only requirement could be is that the tune must have first been submitted in a previous comp. before being reworked. That way we have a reference.

Just ideas - since some were asking.

Hey Objectman, you can use the presets. The true power in the OSC for me at least is how you use them. Although I make 90% of sounds myself... it's the layering and mixing that really sets them apart. Even the worst sounding preset to one person, another person may pay $$$ for. A pro preset designer is usually someone who supplies a type of sound and sells it to a demographic (trance, dubstep, ambient or 'skrillex bass line XYZ')... usually sounds others are familiar with - it doesn't mean the sound will be better than yours (with exception that they also take care that keyboard modulation / velocity are used too).

I don't understand your second paragraph - but I'll shoot: I'm guessing it would be good practice for you to revisit your old tunes yourself, as a side project. Also I assume it's within the rules to remake an old song you did, using the current month's synth.

[bjporter]

Hey everyone, does 'no plugins allowed' mean no EQ, NOTHING done to the sound - no automation? You can simulate reverb, delay, flanger, and phaser by using automation on the EQ or automating multiple copies of a synth - so a possible loophole here.

[z.prime]

Hey everyone, does 'no plugins allowed' mean no EQ, NOTHING done to the sound - no automation? You can simulate reverb, delay, flanger, and phaser by using automation on the EQ or automating multiple copies of a synth - so a possible loophole here.

Multiple copies of the synth, of course, would be fine. Also automation should always be fine... therein lies the rub: you *can* use the synth + volume + timing to accomplish very many of the same things as the effects do, but it would be a pain in the butt and most people wouldn't be happy making music that way.

[bjporter]

Hey everyone, does 'no plugins allowed' mean no EQ, NOTHING done to the sound - no automation? You can simulate reverb, delay, flanger, and phaser by using automation on the EQ or automating multiple copies of a synth - so a possible loophole here.

Multiple copies of the synth, of course, would be fine. Also automation should always be fine... therein lies the rub: you *can* use the synth + volume + timing to accomplish very many of the same things as the effects do, but it would be a pain in the butt and most people wouldn't be happy making music that way.

I know I'm being picky... but that's probably something I'd do but maybe just a few times... it does seem a bit much

[solidtrax]

I agree. I'm in the more limits crowd. I would say eq, dynamics, delay and verb only. I would go further and limit it to Reaper and reaplugs only, but that's not practical for everyone.

That would make us stop competing for good, as we are not going to buy Reaper just for KVR OSC.

Honestly, I think every effect should be allowed, as long as it is freely available. What is the problem with using a chorus? I mean, why is it a problem if somebody wants to change a sound a lot, isn't this what people do "in the real world"? Why limit the KVR OSC so much, when it is already limited (most of the time) to freely available plugins.

KVR OSC allows people to get motivated to make tracks, to learn every month, to push their skills further and further, and I think all freeware plugins should be included in this learning curve, why not?

If someone doesn't want to use reverb, he doesn't use reverb, the same can be said for all types of plugins. Why not let the creator decide what is best for his track, what he/she thinks suits their track the most.

Happy OSC'ing

[photonic]

I agree. I'm in the more limits crowd. I would say eq, dynamics, delay and verb only. I would go further and limit it to Reaper and reaplugs only, but that's not practical for everyone.

That would make us stop competing for good, as we are not going to buy Reaper just for KVR OSC.

Honestly, I think every effect should be allowed, as long as it is freely available. What is the problem with using a chorus? I mean, why is it a problem if somebody wants to change a sound a lot, isn't this what people do "in the real world"? Why limit the KVR OSC so much, when it is already limited (most of the time) to freely available plugins.

KVR OSC allows people to get motivated to make tracks, to learn every month, to push their skills further and further, and I think all freeware plugins should be included in this learning curve, why not?

If someone doesn't want to use reverb, he doesn't use reverb, the same can be said for all types of plugins. Why not let the creator decide what is best for his track, what he/she thinks suits their track the most.

Happy OSC'ing

I totally agree with solidtrax. For me the main question we have to answer is:
Do we want to make a demo-track for a synth? Than we should limit the FX to hear more of the genuine sound.
Or do we want to make the music we would like to hear, just with the limitation of one synth and freeware FX?
In both cases we can show our skills and creativity. But with less limitation we will get more variety and complexity, more WOW-moments when we hear, what others can achieve with the same synth - at last more fun!

Guess what I prefer

[gorgorgathgorgorgor]

As I said, using just reaper wouldnt be practical for everyone, I was just speaking of a theoretical ideal for a competition. Just compare us to an athletic competition... when you compete in a football tournament, don't we always use a regulation ball on a regulation field? Of course you can choose what shoes to wear, so there goes my argument...

[evo2slo]

This is my concept of what the 1-10 scale might indicate:

1. No plugs whatsoever
2. Only a limiter on the master bus
3. Plugs from a pre-chosen list
4. Any free or DAW based plugs except modulation (where we are now)
5. Any free, DAW based, or CM Magazine bundle plugs except modulation
6. Plugs from a pre-chosen list including modulation
7. Any free or DAW based plugs including modulation
8. Any free, DAW based, or CM Magazine bundle plugs including modulation
9. All of the above plus sampling of single hits - reverse, pitch shifting, glitching, etc.
10. Anything goes. Even paid plug-ins. Only rule is all sounds must be sourced from the synth.

Is that at all close to what you were thinking V'ger?

[Eauson]

This is my concept of what the 1-10 scale might indicate:

1. No plugs whatsoever
2. Only a limiter on the master bus
3. Plugs from a pre-chosen list
4. Any free or DAW based plugs except modulation (where we are now)
5. Any free, DAW based, or CM Magazine bundle plugs except modulation
6. Plugs from a pre-chosen list including modulation
7. Any free or DAW based plugs including modulation
8. Any free, DAW based, or CM Magazine bundle plugs including modulation
9. All of the above plus sampling of single hits - reverse, pitch shifting, glitching, etc.
10. Anything goes. Even paid plug-ins. Only rule is all sounds must be sourced from the synth.

I quite like number 3 on this list, seems to me a leveller, bit like playing on a muddy field or just stay with number 4

[V'ger]

Also, how about to ask every winner to share a tip, trick, or interesting synth patch as an educational source for the community. Asking for a full length tutorial is probably too much But, you know, "with great power comes great responsibility", etc. Thus, every OSC will have a smallish lesson for the future generations.

Hear hear, more tips please. One of the nice things about being here is the gold nuggets that come from time to time like Irion's song writing tip just now.

Only thing... sharing a patch is often hard because of the layers of synths used. Also, I barely have enough time to get a track submitted in a month, let alone write up some info about it...

How about sharing FX chains (Reaper-speak) or whatever the DAW that supports it calls it where you get the patch and all the effects settings at the same time as single preset. It would have to be between certain DAWs only of course, but still cool. But there is anyway never been much patch sharing here despite calls which I guess means people are just done after deadline. Nice idea though if anyone's up for sharing.

[V'ger]

V'ger, allowing so many effects already has really given me motivation to push a synth to it's greatest potential. Most 'professional' tunes use a lot of processing ... one of my goals is to make a one Synth Challenge sound like a professional track and could not be done without use of a lot of effects... the Synth is at heart which makes it so wonderful.

Thanks, also I forgot to say you do an amazing job with running OSC.

I fully agree with BJP's opinion.

Cheers for the nice comments, glad you like it.

To the comp : I like the restrictions in these comps. Although every now and again, being a VST / Preset junky, I think - aw gee, I'd love to use a bit of this or that synth. But the comp restrictions make you work harder. I kinda fall away or get bored when I'm programming sounds as there are usually such awesome banks out there by pro designers. I'd never get anything in if i were designing soudns, too.

So what might be a nice idea is to hear old OSC tunes revisited with new VST synths or Effects. Most of the stuff I submit are ideas for tunes rather than complete pieces. I can't say I haven't gone back and revisited a tune, but a comp where Old Tunes are rejigged in whatever way we want might be a good idea - just to relieve those entrants who do feel restricted. Perhaps the only requirement could be is that the tune must have first been submitted in a previous comp. before being reworked. That way we have a reference.

Just ideas - since some were asking.

It might be a fun one-off to do a special 'revisited' pro version of old tunes, but what's interesting is that I think two people did try that and both found little or less improvement which I guess indicates it's sounds that makes the song and it will take time to do as good or better.

Fully agree on the presets though. It can be fun to create a sound from scratch - and I wish I could do more of that - but best result for me when you factor in deadline etc is to tweak existing presets as there are usually some nice ones already made. I see no shame in it if the name of the game is to make the synth shine, but I can also see how points should also go for those who really excel at sound making as some of the best synth patches we've heard have been only here in the competition.

[V'ger]

Hey everyone, does 'no plugins allowed' mean no EQ, NOTHING done to the sound - no automation? You can simulate reverb, delay, flanger, and phaser by using automation on the EQ or automating multiple copies of a synth - so a possible loophole here.

Multiple copies of the synth, of course, would be fine. Also automation should always be fine... therein lies the rub: you *can* use the synth + volume + timing to accomplish very many of the same things as the effects do, but it would be a pain in the butt and most people wouldn't be happy making music that way.

More work yes but I always enjoyed the automation part to make the synth sing more and imo it also fits the competition when you even have to synthesize modulation effects with LFO's or furious knobing (automation in the virtual world). Squeezing every bit out of the synth as the pioneers like Rob Hubbard of C64 did with crazy panning and volume use (which is almost all they had to play with) is the real challenge here. (Btw vcheck out one of the first 'OSC's - hear any similarities? )

A good thing too with a lot of moving and varying sounds as that plays to a synthesizer's strengths and seems anyway a must in todays world, static sounds can quickly lose interest. Just look how well Jean Michel Jarre's stuff works even today with a lot of sound dynamics etc.

Back to effects, there seems to be a trend when looking at OSC that the better synth produces the better songs which means the effects use isn't the biggest factor to the end result and proves the old adage that lipstick on a pig will still be a pig..

But still some exceptions, some of my favorite OSC tunes are from Rogue, a monophonic and mono out SynthEdit.

[V'ger]

While I'm at it, also check out some early one-synth from 1993, this time for the sound cards General Midi sound module. The sequencer is a tracker specially made by the game's developer. Pretty impressive to get all that out of an early GM soundcard, but then the whole TFX soundtrack is anyway top. Here there is not so much automation as careful preset selection and matching and doing it with melody:

[IrionDaRonin]

I don't know what to choose yet. I like to be limited and work from that. But also to get the best quality results with some effects.

In any case, i know just one thing now. A chiptune OSC for yesterday.

One of my childhood games.

It sounds a bit Irionish, right? Guess where i got my style and all my melody scores.

Overclocked Remix. A total new track with the same essence but actual sounds, samples and synths.


...And Turrican, Battleships, Strider, OutRun, Tetris (not the russian song) and a few others as my favourite games soundtracks. I have these melodies in my head since i was kid.
Oh man, i'm getting nostalgic.

Have a nice day