Finally: Venom VB-303 v1.00

[Woody Aki]

God, there are some seriously ungrateful twerps in here!
It doesn't hurt to try something different, you know...

[DuX]

When I had real TB-303, at first I thought of it as a charming toy, and a tough bugger to program, but when I gave it some time the results were rewarding, and you certainly couldn't play it by hand with those little buttons... unless you got it MIDIfied.

Same with Venom-303. It's a really faithful emulation of TB-303 and every aspect of it.

Thank you, Antto!

[Davias]

Personally I don't see why one could achieve different result with the internal sequencer than with midi control... If the slides and accents are here in midi, what is missing then that we can't achieve unless using internal seq ?

I would be interested to know.

For me this is not another 303 emulation, this is THE 303 emulation, I've tried every payware and I have all 303 freeware (I think...) and nothing beats VB-303, the sound is so amazing the others are lacking something or are ugly or buggy, but I think I hate the internal seq for ever, I've used it, like I said, in the past with rebirth and I remember only pain This is personnal of course and I think this is nice for fans that Antto reproduce the seq with so much accuraccy. Just I think I will never use it, unless someone points me that there some things that cannot be achieved without it...

So since I like the sound so much, and I will keep using it with midi even if pain I'll use all the workarounds because for me the seq is just too time consuming for now ^^ If I had the skills I think I would hack the dll to lock the midi mode in on by default (is this even possible ?)

Thanks again for releasing your hard work. For me again the best 303 !

[chk071]

Personally I don't see why one could achieve different result with the internal sequencer than with midi control... If the slides and accents are here in midi, what is missing then that we can't achieve unless using internal seq ?

I would be interested to know.

Does it matter? After all, antto is motivating users to use the internal sequencer, because that's the way the real 303 worked. At least that's how i understood it.

I agree with the rest of your post, though i probably didn't try half as many 303 emus than you have, but for me this sounds very authentic.

[rv0]

t I think I hate the internal seq for ever, I've used it, like I said, in the past with rebirth and I remember only pain

the rebirth seq is pain
however, the venom sequencer is totally different.

you should try it.
it will inspire you in the same way people with 303's were inspired since 1983

every other clone got it wrong
even antto needed convincing that this method is better
but once he implemented it and used it, he understood

[Davias]

Personally I don't see why one could achieve different result with the internal sequencer than with midi control... If the slides and accents are here in midi, what is missing then that we can't achieve unless using internal seq ?

I would be interested to know.

Does it matter? After all, antto is motivating users to use the internal sequencer, because that's the way the real 303 worked. At least that's how i understood it.

I agree with the rest of your post, though i probably didn't try half as many 303 emus than you have, but for me this sounds very authentic.

I guess this should be the most authentic Since I've never heard the real beast (except in records ) I cannot be sure of the authenticity... But I love the 303, and for me this one sounds more alive, more gritty, more fat (sorry :p ) ^^

But for the question that the internal seq can do more than what you can do with midi I think I've read someone saying that earlier in the thread, or maybe it was coming from the manual ? Don't remember for now

The fact is that I have some memory problems too, so I need to see all the notes printed in the piano roll (or similar), I just can't remember what I've inputed in the internal seq, this is part also why I had so hard to unlock the midi mode first time

[Davias]

t I think I hate the internal seq for ever, I've used it, like I said, in the past with rebirth and I remember only pain

the rebirth seq is pain
however, the venom sequencer is totally different.

you should try it.
it will inspire you in the same way people with 303's were inspired since 1983

every other clone got it wrong
even antto needed convincing that this method is better
but once he implemented it and used it, he understood

I tried it with the mouse and it seemed really similar to what I remembered...

Now maybe the power is to use the keyboard, but i just cannot remember what key do what... Maybe I should print the commands somewhere :p

[rv0]

I tried it with the mouse and it seemed really similar to what I remembered...

Now maybe the power is to use the keyboard, but i just cannot remember what key do what... Maybe I should print the commands somewhere :p

Thats the key: you cannot program it using only the mouse

there is no way to hold the write key when you want to add Accent, Up, Down

So yes, you need to use a keyboard

And yes, writing it down is indeed the way to go, nobody can remember it otherwise

Another trick is pressing random buttons and see what happens, but I cant recommend that

[Ch00rD]

[...] this is a vsti, it's 2013, why are you so stubborn - just make the midi switch an easy option, or at least make it so the plugin would remember that it was already unlocked - ffs, this is ridiculous that people here have to unlock that several times. "change the way your daw works" - NO, it's your plugin that misbehaves, it's not the daws that need changes.

[...]

sound quality, though most important, is not everything.

Antto, perhaps you should offer MIDI inputs one at a time on eBay. VB-303 with unlocked MIDI input modification: start bidding at $606 - buy it now for $808. 3 days, 0 hours, 3 minutes left.

Indeed, sound quality is not everything. To some people, like antto and me, authentic (mis)behaviour is important, too. And imho antto definitely has nailed that one. I haven't seen that in any other software before - and that makes MIDI output way more interesting than MIDI input, imho. Which I haven't even seen mentioned yet... but antto did mention wanting to sequence his x0xbox, so that would make sense. So, does it have MIDI out too? (and if so, does the same code unlock both in and out? )

The fact that it is a VSTi (and that it's 2013) doesn't imply at all that it should have whatever function people may be used to having in other VSTi's - it's just a format. Of course it is a completely legitimate wish to have MIDI input, but you also have to respect that it is a completely legitimate design decision *not* to include it. Of course you may dislike that very much and even find it ridiculous (for much the same reasons, people spend good cash to modify TB-303's with CV/gate or MIDI inputs), but please don't call that misbehaviour. Much like you don't *have* to use a 303 bass line in your music, even if everyone else would.

Next up people would be going to demand polyphony too, I guess?

I'm gonna skip this one, mainly because of the sequencer.

I'm gonna keep this one, mainly because of the sequencer.

I wish it would run on OS X, but am willing to use Windows or some emulation layer, mainly because of the sequencer.

[novaflash]

since long time i have not tested a VSTi.
Thanks Antto.

[antto]

the button mapping illustration in the manual isn't great

i tried to do a simpler one

the green keys are mapped 1:1 (directly)
so you only need to remember that RUN/STOP is at the end (B on the higher octave) and those 5 black keys

[antto]

it was harder for me, because i had to decide how to map it, then learn it, then i figured it's not optimal, and changed it, and had to learn again..

i had to learn 89230813 other things too, it wasn't easy
maybe the requirement to learn a bunch of keys and use something that isn't as easy as your other things is too much
it's acceptable for me

[kritikon]

Im going to keep it, mainly because of everything.

[tanabarbier]

Really don't even pay attention to people being angry for things not being the way they want it to be.
It sounds good, looks good, is free, and comes with an opportunity to use your brain, wich apparently is a rare strange unsettling thing for some people.

Thank you for your plugin, and congratulations on having a clear idea of what you want and making it happen.

Happy music making to everyone!

[kritikon]

The fact is that I have some memory problems too, so I need to see all the notes printed in the piano roll (or similar), I just can't remember what I've inputed in the internal seq, this is part also why I had so hard to unlock the midi mode first time

I see where you're coming from. Once upon a time I tried writing in 202 sequences on piano roll and it was just a pain in the arse to get anything similar to how it actually plays on those things (same sequencer as the 303). Same when I had a 303. Nowadays I simply use the really old fashioned method of writing down what note sequences I use on paper. Both the fun and the results themselves don't seem to happen with me when I try those type of sequencer riffs on piano roll. I even used to jot down the sequences and then just write in something close on the piano roll for a hard copy, but again, it actually made too much work. And really, mostly when you're doing 303 riffs, you're not using that many notes - few enough that you can simply write in a comment on the project somewhere which notes you use (Cubase has this facility - I'm sure most other DAWs will). Doesn't matter if you know exactly where each note is in the sequence - as long as you know the key, anything you play with it is going to fit. I do this now if I use my 202 - I add a comment on the audio channel after I recorded it, just with the sequence of notes I used. You could even name the audio channel with the notes, or name the parts on the channel. There's loads of ways to write that sort of stuff down. You can record it to audio, or simply have blank parts (if you're keeping it as midi) 8 bars long or whatever, and name each part CGAB etc. Really it's easier than trying to do it all on piano roll. That's one sure way of giving yourself a headache.

Ask anyone who uses 303s or 202s how they get the best results from them - and generally they'll tell you it's accidental. You kind of start with an idea, but once you've finished sequencing the bloody stupid things, it ends up nothing like what you imagined you were going to input. You fiddle with it - you change a couple of notes, you go back and change a few slides, you change a few accents, put some spaces in. Basically you're fiddling blind until it just sounds good. And to me that's the best way to work the s/w emulation too.
It's one of the irritating things and also the good things about 303s is that you can sequence the notes, the timing, the note lengths and slides etc all independently. But you have no idea what's going to come out until you hit play.

I've never had anything remotely as good by trying to sequence it in via piano roll or playing in over midi etc.