Making ACID Music???

[rob_lee]

95 Euro here Geoff

http://www.audiorealism.se/products.htm

Whats that ABL Pro with the keyboard and does that drum machine level up to the drumazon?

Rob

[tehlord]

No idea. I've only ever used ABL2 a couple of time but I didn't buy it because I've got Phoscyon. Which I bought from you if I recall

[rob_lee]

No idea. I've only ever used ABL2 a couple of time but I didn't buy it because I've got Phoscyon. Which I bought from you if I recall

Ah yes i forgot lol..

[bmot]

acid music is great fun to make. i'd suggest you start by finding an addictive hypnotic acid line and play around with it to see what it has to offer. then experiment with pads, synths, different variations on the 303 pattern, build up something from there. hardware is going to be better for that process, can't beat twisting knobs and having multiple sequencers. more chance of happy accidents, but if you have the patience of course you can use VST instruments. I don't think software could get as good results as a real 303 or well made xOx box plus hardware distortion (MXR+, ProCo Rat). you want a 909 not an 808 for the clasic acid sound. Don't buy one obviously, unless you're loaded. I got a Jomox XBase, there are other cheaper alternatives. I'd recomment not spending hundreds on software, for just a bit more outlay buy decent hardware 2nd hand. hardware is designed for one thing only, and well designed hardware will give you more enjoyment making music. xOx isn't so expensive, and lots of good drum machines around.

Some nice youtube suggestions so far, they are more of the carefully sequenced and "clean" variety. I like the straight forward dirtier stuff made for playing live. My flavour of acid goes something like this:

1. make or "borrow" a main sample (vocal snippet, a sound effect, sampled record) and use it at the drops and key points in the song. gives it an "identity".
2. start the track by building up a rhythm pattern which increases in intensity over the first 2 minutes - adding more hats etc
3. don't introduce the main 303 line until 2+ minutes. when it comes make sure it's a good one
4. use pads to complement the 303. or another synth if you prefer. but don't go mad and use too many sounds, let the 303 and the drums take precedence
5. use a quality distortion on the 303, change distortion drive as song goes on
6. at the drop points in the song temporarily switch off the kick drum, or alternatively the snares and hats, then bring back with a new element to kick even harder than before (pretty standard stuff for all electronic music I guess)
7. use snare drum rolls in the transitions for that old school acid feel
8. sometimes one 303 isn't enough. a lot of acid artists use one for the underlying bassline and one for the higher squelchy stuff. Two 303's can interact in a beautiful way. Or for variation use another monosynth as the 2nd line (direction SH-101)

Alright, that sounds rather prescriptive and you can laugh if you like but it's just what i've observed from listening to loads of acid tracks recently. I don't always follow these pointers myself as it's easy to lose yourself when you find a great 303 line and just twist away.

Look out for anything on the Stay Up Forever label, in particular Dave the Drummer who basically made that template above. Ceephax Acid Crew (brother of Squarepusher) is the best live acid musician around today, some crazy and original stuff. He only uses hardware and it sometimes goes wrong but it's always great. Here are some of my favourite youtube videos:

D.A.V.E. / Secret Hero (same bloke, he's got loads of names)




Ceephax Acid Crew live


Other great acid tracks





* EDIT * I forgot to include a Routemaster track


You can check out my stuff if you're interested, it's all live

[Ch00rD]

If you're intention is to release these tracks professionally I recommend not using software 303 emulations.
A TB 303 is the most important thing to have ... at least a xoxbox...

[...]

From all the people that I know that run acid labels nobody will ever release records with a 303 vst. [...]

Imho that is a bit too strong of an advice. The main difference I can hear between the real thing and good emulations is that the real thing makes a lot more noise. And hardly anybody would argue that a record is not professional enough because there isn't enough noise on it, I guess.

[...] Whats that ABL Pro with the keyboard and does that drum machine level up to the drumazon

ABL Pro is more of a semi-modular thing. Very cool, but not really a 303 with extended controls. In fact, it doesn't even do the typical 303 sound at all.

ADM certainly levels up to Drumazon - in fact, it levels up to Nepheton and Nithonat as well, as it emulates all three of these classic beat boxes. For 909, I like Drumazon a lot, but imho ADM does a much better 808 (which I like much better for acid than a 909), and is a better all-round product. (In practice, I use all of them.)

As for 303 emulations, ABL:2 is my go-to 303 plug-in, I only use Phoscyon very occasionally, if I want the sound to be slightly unlike a 303 (thanks to its extended controls). The recently released VB-303 is sounding really good too, but Windows only, so unfortunately (for me) I haven't been able to check it out more thoroughly. It certainly seems to have all the characteristic quirks of the 303 sequencer.

[zlatan]

If you're intention is to release these tracks professionally I recommend not using software 303 emulations.
A TB 303 is the most important thing to have ... at least a xoxbox...

[...]

From all the people that I know that run acid labels nobody will ever release records with a 303 vst. [...]

Imho that is a bit too strong of an advice. The main difference I can hear between the real thing and good emulations is that the real thing makes a lot more noise. And hardly anybody would argue that a record is not professional enough because there isn't enough noise on it, I guess.

A 303 is as important to acid music as a guitar to rock .
You can make acid tracks without a 303 line , but as soon as you start using a plug in to replace the real thing ....
that's where it gets bad.

Pure Acid labels and DJs DO hear the difference and that's why they won't play or release most of those type of tracks.

[Sendy]

From all the people that I know that run acid labels nobody will ever release records with a 303 vst.

I do a lot of acid influenced stuff and people write to me saying they enjoy it but nobody's ever said "I'd like this track a whole lot more if you used a real 303 instead of ABL2".

To me acid is about repetitive yet constantly changing patterns (be it a synth line or a breakbeat), a certain punk-ish lo-fi DIY attitude, using cheap or outmoded sound sources in creative ways, and having a sort of trippy edge to your music. Not overpolishing your mixes yet still making them sound great loud! Some acid tracks don't even use a 303.

[zlatan]

I do a lot of acid influenced stuff and people write to me saying they enjoy it but nobody's ever said "I'd like this track a whole lot more if you used a real 303 instead of ABL2".

I was talking about pure Acid not "acid influenced".

You can make a Classical influenced record with Kontakt libraries and nobody will complain , but it's a different story when you're going to make a pure Classical record with libraries ....

Acid is all about analog filtered bleeps and noises which you can't replicate properly in the digital domain (yet).

It's not just my opinion , but facts (at least in my circles).

[Mushy Mushy]

You can make acid tracks without a 303 line

I've had many many people tell me this track isn't acid:
http://soundcloud.com/mushy-mushy/acid- ... r-harrow-1

[bmot]

Really, we could argue forever about whether software can properly emulate hardware. What's the point though? If you like the sound of certain software or hardware then that's fine by me. I say everyone should be open minded and try out whatever they have the chance to try. But I do want to wade in and be slightly contraversial...

Personally speaking i'm happier with the sound of my xOxBox than any software 303-clone i've used. I prefer twisting knobs on purpose designed interfaces. I liked the Phoscyon 303 copy but at that price it's worth saving up for an xOxBox. Software doesn't hold its value, hardware does (choose wisely, it can go up), for me it is folly to spend money on software which has a better hardware equivalent/original for not much more money. Stuff like Sylenth and complex VSTi's can't be done in hardware without laods of $$$ so I totally get paying for these. A software 808/909 at over 100 Euros? Utterly pointless waste of money. Get a Jomox, or an R8, or MFB503 etc etc there are loads to choose from. Drum machines and analogue monosynths do NOT need software clones, there are so many good new and vintage hardware choices.

I also like to use external FX (distortion pedals etc) and software is annoying to use with external hardware. I've also never found a software distortion I like, ProCo Rat does the business like nothing else. But maybe i'm the wrong person to discuss software/hardware things with, i've ditched nearly all my software and found hardware to replace it. Workflow is much better, fun factor is much higher, results are better. Ableton live is now a very expensive digital recorder, long may that continue for me.

[bmot]

You can make acid tracks without a 303 line

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I've had many many people tell me this track isn't acid:

Love the aggressive kick on your track, really nice work. It would be even better with a 303/clone, then i'd call it acid :wink:

[Eauson]

Some classics


Still love this

[dayjob]

i find the emulations to be ok for certain 303 type sounds but they aren't nearly as versatile as a real 303 or x0box or similar. i notice a lot of people use the distortion a lot on the ABL2 and it seems the only way they can make it sound believable but a real acid box can do way more and be smooth and bubble etc.

i have ABL2 and use it from time to time for various things but i don't think it comes close to a real 303 or a good hardware clone. it doesn't have that bass thump and the filter is not even close. i think you'd have better luck getting good acid sounds from a good saw wave sample and using The Drop from cytomic or some other high end filter plug in that has oversampling and is more CPU intensive.. it won't sound like a 303 but it will sound acidy and i think overall will be more flexible. you'll have to program the notes to get the slides etc but w/some practice and experimentation it's totally do-able...

luke vibert has said he's been using reason and sequencing samples of 303 in his recent tracks.. (like last few years) and pretty much doing it all in reason...

also, squarepusher put together something in reaktor to make acid sounds.. not really a 303 emulation but something that is an expanded acid bass synth. it's al over his stuff for the last several years... i think even some of Venus No 17 is his reaktor patch.

[Sendy]

I'll be honest, I've been debating getting myself a x0xb0x for years. I'm just terrified that I'm that one person who splashes out for one JUST as software cracks the perfect 303 clone.

ABL Pro and D-16 Lush are also good for acidic synthlines that are more 101/202ish. I think software is really catching up and it won't be long now.

[rob_lee]

I'll be honest, I've been debating getting myself a x0xb0x for years.

Just buy one.. nothing beats turning real knobs