Going hardware???

[pc999]

This is mostly by curiosity but if someone who is used to do almost all his work on a DAW if he wanted to go hardware as much as possible what would be needed?

I know that guys like prodigy (used to) use only hardware but I dont know how they did the sequencing part as I only know of simple (almost loop based) sequencers integrated in the synths or drum machines AFAIK, How they did it?


So what I am asking is if I wanted to do be it EBM or sequence a "complex" orchestral music (eg. hans zimmer soundtracks with Zebra) , what and how would I do it?

I know there is hardware synths like Kronos, nord drums or JP 80 that can do all the sounds and those can be recorded into a multitrack but how do you sequence them?

Thanks.

[Numanoid]

I know that guys like prodigy (used to) use only hardware but I dont know how they did the sequencing part as I only know of simple (almost loop based) sequencers integrated in the synths or drum machines AFAIK, How they did it?

Orbital for instance used the Alesis MMT-8 at the start of the 90's:
http://www.vintagesynth.com/misc/mmt8.php

Roland MC-80 is another cool and advanced machine, have a look at this round-up:
http://www.vintagesynth.com/misc/sequencers.php

[cryophonik]

I know there is hardware synths like Kronos, nord drums or JP 80 that can do all the sounds and those can be recorded into a multitrack but how do you sequence them?

Most workstations (e.g., Kronos) have onboard sequencers/arrangers. If not, you can pick up a secondhand hardware sequencer like the ones that Numanoid mentioned for pretty cheap these days. I used a Roland MC-50mkII up until about 7 years ago and it's a very cool unit. It's definitely not as easy or visual as working with a DAW, but it has its appeal. Of course, you'll also need something to record to, whether that's a standalone digital multitrack recording unit (e.g., Tascam, Korg, Fostex, Roland, Yamaha) or your computer/DAW.

[pc999]

Thanks I had no idea those things existed at all, it doesnt look much more "physical" than a PC if at all.

Just one question these workstations have good sequencing capability, I had the idea that many could only do a loop or two


Anyway I am getting big hopes for tech like leapmotion/kinetic and big touch screens

[cryophonik]

Just one question these workstations have good sequencing capability, I had the idea that many could only do a loop or two

No, the workstations from Korg, Roland, Kurzweil, Yamaha, etc. usually have 16-track sequencers with a capacity of 100s of thousands of notes and are more than sufficient for creating complete songs. They're still not as convenient or versatile as using a computer-based DAW for sequencing your hardware synths, but their focused workflow can have its advantages.

Another sequencing option that you may want to consider is an iPad with a good MIDI sequencer app (e.g., Genome).

[tehlord]

Workstations have nothing like the depth that a software sequencer has. Not even close.

It's probably best to start off with one hardware synth/drum machine/instrument to get a feel of how it integrates with your current setup.

Remember that for the most part you'll be doing sequencing and recording directly to audio. You don't have the added bonus of infinite editing that you can do with VST plugins. Some people actually see that as a bonus as it may well help your workflow, not fiddling with things forever.

[Sequent]

If you're looking to sequence things only on hardware, besides some of the built-in things on workstations (cryophonik mentioned Kronos), you can also look at something like this:

http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/qy700.php




These are fairly inexpensive nowadays on ebay and what's nice about them is that in a way it's a lot like working in a daw (due to all the graphic feedback). This was Yamaha's flagship midi sequencer back in its heyday.

You can also look at the smaller models like the qy300, qy100, or qy70. The qy70 in particular was very popular with a lot of producers.

[vata44]

Grab a Korg M50 and go to town. It is not as in depth as a DAW, but if you can "play" music, you will be in heaven. If you want to program and manipulate, cut, shift, etc. then go for a DAW.

[Uncle E]

I know that guys like prodigy (used to) use only hardware but I dont know how they did the sequencing part as I only know of simple (almost loop based) sequencers integrated in the synths or drum machines AFAIK, How they did it?

Prodigy used the sequencer in the Roland W-30. It's been said that he would sometimes sync multiple W-30's to get more tracks.

So what I am asking is if I wanted to do be it EBM or sequence a "complex" orchestral music (eg. hans zimmer soundtracks with Zebra) , what and how would I do it?

A newer Motif could do a decent job at working with orchestral stuff, not as good as a computer but not bad. It'd be tough to do with any of the older hardware sequencers.

Personally, if I were going all hardware, I'd get a Korg Kronos. An Akai MPC5000 could be a lot of fun, too.

[michat]

I know there is hardware synths like Kronos, nord drums or JP 80 that can do all the sounds and those can be recorded into a multitrack but how do you sequence them?

Thanks.

Atari Mega ST

[pc999]

Cool thanks for the info.

I wonder how long will it take to these kind of things reappear in modern forms...(?)

[Uncle E]

I imagine they'll show up as things like these:

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/apps/mob ... mode=model

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/apps/mob ... mode=model

http://www.jrrshop.com/akai-mpc-fly-mus ... r-for-ipad

[kritikon]

Or they'll not show up at all. There's a reason most people went straight over to PC based DAWs. If you're going h/w, the sensible thing is to not go h/w with the sequencer. To me that just sounds like h/w for the sake of h/w. There'll be quite a few of us round here that have used a variety of h/w sequencers in the past - through necessity not choice. And most of us gave them up like a shot as soon as DAWs became affordable and widespread. Pretty well the only advantage I can come up with for a h/w sequencer is that you don't use a mouse. For pretty well everything else, they're inferior to DAWs. I used Yamaha sequencers, then those Roland HD mixer/recorder things, and they were all shite compared to even the first version of Cubase (which didn't even have audio).

Sure you can sequence songs on workstation synths. I wouldn't actually want to go back to doing that though. Used to do it on an M1 - what a complete and utter pain in the haemorrhoids that was. Indescribably tedious. It works if your playing is that good that you don't want to do any midi editing, but IMO unless you are that good, don't make it hard on yourself.

I can see reasons to using h/w synths, h/w mixers, h/w FX and outboard, almost everything else. I still maintain a reasonable sized h/w set up myself. But not sequencers. That's doing it for the sake of it. It gives you no workflow or sonic advantages IMO.

And the actual h/w for s/w DAWs is becoming even better too. You're no longer reliant on a laptop or desktop. How can a Yamaha QY or whatever compete with things like pads with touchscreens? I can't imagine what else is going to be new in computer h/w but I bet it's going to get better and easier for musicians, whatever it is. I never liked using a mouse, and I'm a bit of a Luddite, but even I have to acknowledge that computer tech now is streaks ahead of old sequencers. The fact I can use an iPad etc to control Cubase at a distance from my desktop, no longer agonising my wrist with a stupid mouse - it's studio heaven. Seriously - don't even consider h/w sequencers. have you ever figured out how to use a DAW or other s/w without a manual? I'm sure we all have. ANd we mostly all managed to get them to work in a short time, quite easily. Now go and try that with almost any h/w sequencer...you'll soon see the error of your ways

I'll be the first to wax lyrical about plenty of other h/w. Sequencers are not fun though. They're not practical. They're not user friendly. Past users mainly used them because they had to, not because they wanted to.

[Numanoid]

I wonder how long will it take to these kind of things reappear in modern forms...(?)

That is a fascinating way of looking at things

I think the most bare-bones mobile cellphone nowadays have far bigger processing power than Roland W30 ever did.

And sequencing stuff with the W-30 must have been "keyhole surgery" nightmare, I guess you needed to plot out your sequence on paper before you punched it all in step by step. With the layout luxury the common DAW offers these days, that kind of "torture" is luckily long gone

[ZenPunkHippy]

About sequencers ...

There are modern sequencers that are very far from the old days. Here are 2 examples:

http://www.sequentix.com/cirklon.htm

Cirklon has 5 MIDI DIN I/O ports, 6 USB MIDI ports. That's 192 channels of MIDI (!!!), limited only by having 64 simultaneous tracks in the current OS but that may change. Every MIDI message is guaranteed to be sent with the lowest possible latency (sub 1ms).

It has a CV I/O option for triggering old school analogs and also sending clock pulses.

The track modulation parameters are out of this world. It's not quite as powerful as (say) the Logic environment, but it's very close.

There's a DIY MIDI sequencer project here:

http://www.ucapps.de/index.html?page=midibox_seq.html

If you're serious about getting in to hardware check 'em out.

Peace,
Andy.