Making ACID Music???

[Ch00rD]

Thanks for your replies Krikiton and Antto. As I usually uses a tracker DAW I don't see what looks weird on the piano roll since I have no piano roll then

And I usually play random notes and velocities (pseudo-random, I just hit the keyboard like a retarded ) and then correct the too weird parts/notes, so isn't it a little like the randomness that can happen while programming the sequencer ?

There is no randomness while programming the sequencer, only user error / 'happy accidents' (to quote Bob Ross out of context ). The randomness comes from taking out the batteries.

Another aspect that is important in emulating the internal sequencer with external (piano roll / tracker style etc.) sequencers: the gate times are important too. A pattern of 16th notes should use gate times which are *slightly* longer than 32th notes, e.g. the note duration is just a bit longer than the silence between the notes. Since overlapping notes are commonly used to trigger the slides, it often makes sense to quantize note start and end times to 16th notes, then shorten the duration of all notes by one 32th note, and finally increase the duration of all notes by a few ticks.

Sadly I don't use it as fast as I want coz I keep trying hard to use midi and not the sequencer shame on me !

Yes indeed, shame on you.

[antto]

nah, there's nothing magical about the gate duration, the 303 runs on an analog clock which is basically a square wave
however, the duration of 16th notes seems longer than the silent gaps after them, because the VCA envelope doesn't discharge instantly (so it forms like a release segment)

[Ch00rD]

nah, there's nothing magical about the gate duration, the 303 runs on an analog clock which is basically a square wave
however, the duration of 16th notes seems longer than the silent gaps after them, because the VCA envelope doesn't discharge instantly (so it forms like a release segment)

Fair enough, but let me simplify the point then: to emulate the 303 sequencer, you do not want to play notes back-to-back (other than ties / slides), but ensure there are gaps of silence between them.

Also let me note that one of the things I like about using 303's modded with CV/gate / MIDI input and software emu's with MIDI input is that you *can* vary the gate times to *not* be exactly like the internal sequencer. Authenticity is one thing, flexibility is another.

[Davias]

There is no randomness while programming the sequencer, only user error / 'happy accidents' (to quote Bob Ross out of context ). The randomness comes from taking out the batteries.

Sorry I've used wrong words (english is not my primary language), I meant I introduce quirks in my composition to simulate errors in pattern sequencing

This is when I start from scratch. But usually I like to follow a lead with a 303 line in a track already made, then MIDI control is important because you can just copy paste your lead midi to the 303 emu, and for example put an arppegiator in between.

[dayjob]

i find the emulations to be ok for certain 303 type sounds but they aren't nearly as versatile as a real 303 or x0box or similar. i notice a lot of people use the distortion a lot on the ABL2 and it seems the only way they can make it sound believable but a real acid box can do way more and be smooth and bubble etc.

I couldn't disagree more. My advice would be the exact opposite: the single effective method to ensure that ABL2 does *not* sound like a "believable" TB-303 emulation, is to use its internal distortion effect. It simply does not do justice to the basic sound of the instrument at all.

i have ABL2 and use it from time to time for various things but i don't think it comes close to a real 303 or a good hardware clone. it doesn't have that bass thump and the filter is not even close. i think you'd have better luck getting good acid sounds from a good saw wave sample and using The Drop from cytomic or some other high end filter plug in that has oversampling and is more CPU intensive.. it won't sound like a 303 but it will sound acidy and i think overall will be more flexible. you'll have to program the notes to get the slides etc but w/some practice and experimentation it's totally do-able... [...]

Again, I disagree, and I have used ABL2 and TB-303s side-to-side quite a lot. Imho the filter is *very* close to the real thing, and software emulations are much more versatile than the original hardware. While "close to a real 303" may be something different than "good acid sounds", a saw wave sample plus a filter effect like The Drop is something *completely* different than a 303. Sure, pretty much any synth is more flexible than a TB-303. But I wish you good luck programming those accents.

of course a synth + the drop would be way different.. i only mention it as an option for "acid-like" sounds.. not for 303 emulation... acid doesn't all the time have to be a 303.

and really.. that's interesting you think the ABL2 and 303 are so close. i just don't hear it. especially in a mix and with modulation... just not that close at all but i i guess we can just disagree there. overall i find ABL2 to be just kind of boring and flat and w/o that bass thump it's just a dead give away.

i think a x0xbox is the way to go if hardware.. for software i'd probably use a combination of things.

[antto]

and really.. that's interesting you think the ABL2 and 303 are so close. i just don't hear it.

maybe you're listening to tracks made with ABL via the external sequencing mode

IMO it's very important to use the internal sequencer, make proper patterns, then twist the knobs, and for this you really wanna try using a midi controler
try that with ABL and you'll see it's there ;]

doing it otherwise is not a fair comparison vs a 303 or x0xb0x because they both have real knobs

[dayjob]

and really.. that's interesting you think the ABL2 and 303 are so close. i just don't hear it.

maybe you're listening to tracks made with ABL via the external sequencing mode

IMO it's very important to use the internal sequencer, make proper patterns, then twist the knobs, and for this you really wanna try using a midi controler
try that with ABL and you'll see it's there ;]

doing it otherwise is not a fair comparison vs a 303 or x0xb0x because they both have real knobs

i own ABL2 and use it from time to time. i've had it for years. it's good but it's not the hardware. i know they worked hard on it and paid attention to lot's of details but it just doesn't do it for me. i don't think it holds up.


edit: i'll add that it holds up better than i recall. i've been putting it through its paces for the last while and getting some burbles and acid lines. having not used it in a while i thought it best to have a go at it and make sure i'm not talking out my ass.

it's good and for the price is likely the best option in software but still just isn't the hardware.

[kritikon]

not that i've been there but, i think most of the old acid tracks were made with the internal sequencer, and not via midi, the 303 has no midi btw

Absolutely. I knew a few with the midi mod, but I never saw them doing decent acid with it. They used it for other style stuff. One of the guys I used to conspire with had midi on his 303 and we always did either more ambient stuff with it that way, or weirder techno-ish bleeps and burbles. He was a decent player as well, but he would readily admit to not being able to get anywhere near playing acid lines over midi. And why would anynoe want to? As you mentioned - to do acid, you have to be twidlling knobs (and changing sequences depending on whether you could be arsed chaining up a whole song).

[Ch00rD]

[...] edit: i'll add that it holds up better than i recall. i've been putting it through its paces for the last while and getting some burbles and acid lines. having not used it in a while i thought it best to have a go at it and make sure i'm not talking out my ass.

it's good and for the price is likely the best option in software but still just isn't the hardware.

I'll agree on that for sure - or I would have sold my TB-303s a long time ago.

Antto's VB-303 also has a *great* price/quality ratio. And technoBox2 (iOS) should probably also be mentioned: the DSP quality of ABL2 for only a handful of bucks, with effects and drums, too.

[Axiomstatic]

Very good with all the replies.

So you all know all this talk of 303's.
I just purchased one on ebay last night.

Picking it up today, will let you guys know what I think comparing it to ABL as I purchased this also.

Oh are you ready for this I purchased a 909 as well. But will not have that until next week.

So many good tips on this page.
Thanks guys
peace out.

[antto]

[Ch00rD]

Very good with all the replies.

So you all know all this talk of 303's.
I just purchased one on ebay last night.

Picking it up today, will let you guys know what I think comparing it to ABL as I purchased this also.

Oh are you ready for this I purchased a 909 as well. But will not have that until next week.

So many good tips on this page.
Thanks guys
peace out.

High five.

[V0RT3X]

I hope roland re-releases the TB-303 in the same fashion Korg did with their MS-20 Mini...

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2013/ ... ine-synth/

[flame-war]

Continuing the flamebait raised by the guy at Roland, why bother?

We have the x0xbox and other assorted clones. There is absolutely no point what so ever in Roland re-releasing the original. Basically: the party is over, Roland are late!

99% of listeners can't tell software from the original. That leaves about 0.0001% who can hear the difference between a x0xbox and a real TB-303.

... and if you think this is flamebait, wait till you hear what people will say about the original vs. the re-release

[/flame-war]

Peace,
Andy.

I was actually being sincere, I would like to own an affordable TB-303. I had no idea this was flamebait on the forums at roland as I have never been there yet. I just found that article on synthtopia and found it interesting.

I may end just ponying up the dough for a SH-101 and TB-303 someday.

[Sendy]

It can be quite hard to do a subjective, scientific analysis of the output of a box when you've spent essentially a thousand pounds If I get something for analog acid enhancement it'll probably be the Elektron Analog 4. It'll break the bank but so what?! The thing is mental, it does acid and SO much more, 4 voices and a sequencer with instant digital control - so you can use chipsound techniques such as switching in a snare drum around a complex bassline on the same channel, or rapidly switch waveforms, filters in any way. Who needs polyphony with that kind of surgical control... *shining*

[Axiomstatic]

Antto are you amazed that I just went out and popped $8k plus for my Acid Rig.

Guys this is what I purchased in total all because of you guys here, now I am bum broke.

Roland 909
Roland 303
I found me a 606
I am thinking about an 808, just trying to bargain
Purchased ABL and a TT BassboT To go with the 303.

Oh and the 303 I purchased has been modified with a Devilfish. Not to sure how the hell this will sound, for better or for worse. I have no idea about Devilfish.

The guy wants $3500 for the 808, I said Ill give ya $3k and call it a day.

Also purchased some distortion pedals. Rat and Geiger Counter.

What you think guys I am set now to make some acid or what?