XILS Roland Vocoder VP-330 Plus - NEW SYNTH

[Lotuzia]

So I feel free not to buy the VP-330 and stay with the Hollow Sun Kontaktversion for 18 Euros.

Not a bad choice

But Kontakt isn't free is it? Even though the HS library costs just €18, you need Kontakt to run it in and that costs €399 last time I checked

Well, not only Kontakt isnt free, but the Hollow Sun is a sample library of the Choir and Strings part, the Ensemble effect is in the samples, and it doesnt have the Vocoder part, there's no modellisation of the components, of the TOD etc etc, so it seems to me this is a completely different product. Imho some people loving the VP-330 could very well desire both the V+ and the Hollow Sun library, they have different possibilities, and approaches.

[ChiTown24]

In fact

We know the facts, and nothing I have said is contrary to the facts. You clearly also missed the crux of my point since in re-posting segments of the newsletter you omitted the part that indicates when the DEMO is available. Which is the 25th of may, when the bogus 'pre-order' gimmick ends. You obviously don't need to remind me that the price also goes up from 99euro after almost a week, and reminding me of that fact in no way addresses or mitigates my misgivings with the pre-order gimmick.

Stephen, this is exactly, word for word, the way I thought. And the reasons are also exactly the right ones. ( Very short deadlines )

So this answers to ChiTown24

what ? not at all. My statement is that no one should purchase this software without trying it first, and doing so sets a very poor precedent for such little gain. It's not like Audio Damage where you are guaranteed a refund if you don't like it or there are unforeseen incompatibilities with your system. As for my queries - they were mostly rhetorical, but neither you nor amused addressed them. If not a really cheap marketing gimmick that puts consumers in wholly unnecessary risk for such little gain, what is the real purpose of pre-ordering this software 8 days before it is available to try ? What is happening so frantically in that week, that you need set such poor precedents ? For 10 euros this really is an exercise in gullibility imo.

There's no real marketing trick, except if you think marketing is a dirty thing in itself

I don't think that's true. And I can handle lots of marketing gimmicks, so long as it doesn't preclude my demoing the stuff first, and for such little return ?

To buy software for 89 Euro without any test is more than a joke

+1 Word

[Ingonator]

So I feel free not to buy the VP-330 and stay with the Hollow Sun Kontaktversion for 18 Euros.

Not a bad choice

But Kontakt isn't free is it? Even though the HS library costs just €18, you need Kontakt to run it in and that costs €399 last time I checked

Well, not only Kontakt isnt free, but the Hollow Sun is a sample library of the Choir and Strings part, the Ensemble effect is in the samples, and it doesnt have the Vocoder part, there's no modellisation of the components, of the TOD etc etc, so it seems to me this is a completely different product. Imho some people loving the VP-330 could very well desire both the V+ and the Hollow Sun library, they have different possibilities, and approaches.

I got both the Hollow Sun library and V+ and i prefer V+ tbh not just because V+ includes the vocoder.

Last but not least i also created single cycle waveforms of V+ that i used to create patches in Rayblaster which sound quite nice too. As Rayblaster "exracts" the filter response from the single cycle wave the "Formant" knob for the Strings sound works like a LPF and for the Choir more like a Formant filter.


PS:
I was asked by PM why i hesitate to post audio demos now. One reason is that if i post examples of V+ now it could be maybe be easier for those who participate in the competition to know which is which.


Ingo

[jowen]

I have to tell you that I have a nearly animalfree studio, only my two little capybaras.
There was to mutch trouble and smelling with all the other ones.
So I use only the Hollow Sun wav samples of the VP, that could also been used in other free or low cost samplers or granulators.

[Ingonator]

what ? not at all. My statement is that no one should purchase this software without trying it first, and doing so sets a very poor precedent for such little gain.

Why not? There should be some who trust Xils Lab and/or think that think the A/B demos at the competition are "proof" enough.

As i told in my other post the "risk" is up to you (which means i was aware that the demo is not available during the pre-order) and like i also told if it's too risky for you hen you could wait and pay a bit more.


Ingo

[Lotuzia]

........

Hi ChiTown24,

Maybe I'm wrong, but this is how I read your post :

We have offered two different discounts for the V+ :

Preorder with 60€ Discount ( No demo version available )
Intro Price period with 50€ Discount. ( Demo Version available )

You prefer the second formula ( and this is precisely why there are two formulas, because we thought some people will prefer the first or the second one ) So not any problem with that we understood from the beginning some people, eventually the majority, would prefer this one.

However some people might thought in a different way, including a lot of Xils fans who have all our produts, and might prefer the first one. After all, at this price, it wont be taht much trouble to resell it after in the market price without suffering a big loss ( maybe 10/15 € ? )

Then there are also some instruments that are sold without demos, and will never get one, including a lot of sample based instruments btw, but not only. I wont give names but everyone will have his own in their heads. ( Including a beautiful mono VA recently released iirc )

So, in short, we offer two possibilities when usually people only get one, just take the one you prefer, if you're interested in the V+, et voilà. More possibilities cant harm, imho. Just the way I see it. YMMV.

LtZ

[ChiTown24]

what ? not at all. My statement is that no one should purchase this software without trying it first, and doing so sets a very poor precedent for such little gain.

Why not? There should be some who trust Xils Lab and/or think that think the A/B demos at the competition are "proof" enough.

As i told in my other post the "risk" is up to you (which means i was aware that the demo is not available during the pre-order) and like i also told if it's too risky for you hen you could wait and pay a bit more.


Ingo

Why not ? Well, besides setting a terrible precedent for others - as some other Devs will surely adopt this kind of shit if it pays off, it's a bad thing to do for yourself as a human being. You really want to get into the habit of paying 89 euro for some software you couldn't test VS waiting a week, trying it, and only paying 10 euros more out of 100 ? Well then - good luck ! I look forward to reading your butthurt rants in the future about software you never demo'd before purchase, perhaps not with xils-lab, but some other dev you pre-ordered from because you became accustomed to the idea... for a pittance in savings, for shame! for shame!

Normally when people are debating the merits of something related to audio software, it often ends with the only really reliable piece of advice "just try the demo and see for yourself". Sage advice rendered useless by a marketing gimmick - I hope anyone taking part spends their 10 euro in savings on magic beans

Anyway, with any luck, there'll be some participants who regret it due to bugs or being underwhelmed with the product...and are vocal about it. Not that I enjoy wishing support problems on devs, especially devs who's synths i enjoy, but for the sake of sensible consumers everywhere it's a wish I'm willing to make

I guess I've made my point, I'm starting to beat it, but beyond this i guess there's not much more to say other than IMO. I'll try and leave this topic behind now and move on to the honeymoon vibes

[aMUSEd]

there are some who will be planning to buy this already based on either their trust in XILs as a brand

I'm planning on buying it too. After trying it. For 10%/10 euros, I'm not about to forgo that most holy of software consumer privileges {or should I say rights?}.

10 Euros on top of a launch offer price that already knocks another 30 off. That's what a pre order is - you buy it before it's available. If you don't want to that's fine but some people will buy this on the XILs name, the demos and what it emulates without needing to demo it - that is their choice too. For them they get an even better bargain but with a small risk (but they can always sell it again anyway). I don't see any problem.

[ChiTown24]

........

Hi ChiTown24,

Maybe I'm wrong, but this is how I read your post :

We have offered two different discounts for the V+ :

Preorder with 60€ Discount ( No demo version available )
Intro Price period with 50€ Discount. ( Demo Version available )

You prefer the second formula ( and this is precisely why there are two formulas, because we thought some people will prefer the first or the second one ) So not any problem with that we understood from the beginning some people, eventually the majority, would prefer this one.

{You posted this as I was typing my last post, so I'll reply...}


Some people will prefer the second formula ? ...lol, mate, I would certainly hope that the overwhelming majority prefer to demo stuff before they buy it, especially when the alternative only saves you 10 euros out of 100.
But really - you still haven't answered the query - from your POV what is the actual purpose, for xils lab, of the first formula ? Why allow yourself to sell something to people who haven't had a chance to try it, and only offer them 10 euros for the risk ? If you're trying to do your userbase a 'favour' just offer them the 89 euro price when the demo is available for 5 days, offer the 99 euro price the following week if you like. Or is there some genuine, logistic reason this gimmick is a reasonable thing to do ? You still have not come close to convincing me that this is an entirely necessary or altruistic gimmick
I'm going to say it once more, because I'm on commission: bad precedent. {for too little gain}

However some people might thought in a different way, including a lot of Xils fans who have all our produts, and might prefer the first one. After all, at this price, it wont be taht much trouble to resell it after in the market price without suffering a big loss ( maybe 10/15 € ? )

You say that as if you haven't seen so many xils-lab threads destroyed with dongle talk, you say it as if you yourself have not also created a dedicated dongle discussion thread to abate this very behaviour. re-selling dongled stuff isn't as easy-going as software protected by other methods. ilok'd licenses are more straight forward, but the transfer still costs what..$25 ? $29 ? plus the hit you've got to take on the market value ? so what's the pre-order-er supposed to do when he's got should-have-demo'd-it-first remorse ? wait until the price of the software has gone right up, wait until people are really impressed by it and want it, and hope after some hassles he'll get his money back - if he's lucky - or take a hit of what ? something less than 10 euro ? That would be extremely optimistic. So in the end is all that BS really worth saving 10 euro from the onset ? Elicensers are an even bigger PITA to sell. you've got to physically post the dongles these days, as well as the cost of the dongle. You guys stopped selling elicensers - right ? Pretty rich to offer this kind of advice while you stop selling the things yourself.

Then there are also some instruments that are sold without demos, and will never get one, including a lot of sample based instruments btw, but not only. I wont give names but everyone will have his own in their heads. ( Including a beautiful mono VA recently released iirc )

Right, and so this is the genesis of your marketing scheme ? no demos for reaktor ensembles or sample libraries ? why can't we do it too ? you neglect to acknowledge that [a] there are not many good alternatives for those devs to provide full-featured demos - at all. a sensible consumer can at least take the time to help inform their purchase decision based on cross-referencing user feedback through various forms of print & social media. and still pay the same price.

What you have done is create a completely artificial & arbitrary situation where you are trying to compel people to purchase without demoing - a demo being something you can easily supply, and will do so 8 days later. for this, you offer them a saving of 10 euro VS waiting. As far as comparisons go this isn't even the same sport, nevermind the same ball park.

who concocted this scheme, btw ?

[jowen]

ChiTown24 wrote:
just offer them the 89 euro price when the demo is available for 5 days,
offer the 99 euro price the following week if you like.
+1

or offer 49 euro without demo for the people that trust on the name or like gambling

to Ingo:
for vocoding I thought that you use lector or decoder?
I use the decoder beside the capys, because of this I still got the powercores running

[murnau]

did you even know what a pre-order is? you want demo a pre-order?

thanx for the pre-order option. i'll take it. saves me 10 bucks.

[Lotuzia]

Well, ChiTown, I think you definitely prefer the second formula.

The first formula is a gift to Xils users who firmly believe in Xils-lab, and/or are convinced by the audio demos and information that are available atm. I've seen in many threads people who declared " I bought *this* eyes shut because it comes from "this xyz" manufacturer and I love all their products ". If you read KVR, or other forums, i'm sure you have seen them too. I can't see any reason why we would not want to reward these people with an extra gift.

Concerning the "Let's discuss Dongle" thread, and just fyi, I initiated it in the Effect Kvr forum because the Exponential Audio thread, after quite some pages, only discussed the dongle thing, and not the reverbs themselves ( When Xils effects are all only protected by a serial )

Additional Discount : I concocted this scheme, and take all the responsability for it. Will it be good, or less good, we'll see. Anyway, if there are lessons to learn, we'll learn them. I cant see any harm in offering a better deal to Xils lovers, and more additional possibilities than your usual launch offer do. If only 10 people choose the first formula, it will prove that the idea made at least a few happy persons, so it might be a good idea, because the happyness of our users is the most important thing to me. ( Except if the ten users resell it the week after, wich will prove that you're right and I'm wrong )

And finally Elicencer transferts are free, and Xils doesnt take anything on this, and doesnt impose any period before reselling. Well, you can compare this with alternative offers.

LtZ

[Lotuzia]

did you even know what a pre-order is? you want demo a pre-order?

thanx for the pre-order option. i'll take it. saves me 10 bucks.

( Thanks for saving my life today )

[ChiTown24]

did you even know what a pre-order is?

good question. do you ?

it's typically a process associated with selling highly popular physical products {or the physical distribution of digital media} that is in in limited supply at launch. or in electronic music terms, it happens most frequently with boutique hardware stuff that requires a substantial amount of physical parts to be ordered during the manufacturing process. you know, it's most typically something borne of physical necessities.

or, as wikipedia puts it:

A pre-order is an order placed for an item which has not yet been released. The idea for pre-orders came when people found it hard to get popular items in stores due to their popularity. Companies were then given the idea to allow people to reserve their own personal copy, before the release, which has been a huge success. Pre-orders allow consumers to guarantee immediate delivery on release, manufacturers can gauge how much demand there will be and hence how large initial production runs should be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-order

hopefully, you start to see how artificially & arbitrarily x̶i̶l̶s̶-̶l̶a̶b̶ edit: Lotuzia is using this term. and while some other software {not audio, more like games} devs might do something similar {pre-order incentive schemes}, the savings are usually much more substantial than 10 euro out of 100 VS waiting to try it out first.

you're welcome

[murnau]

did you even know what a pre-order is? you want demo a pre-order?

thanx for the pre-order option. i'll take it. saves me 10 bucks.

( Thanks for saving my life today )

that was easy..

seiously: i have everything from xils - and everything is top notch. if i had any doubts then i would demo it. since i obviously dont have any (see sentence one) i'm happy you provide pre-order.

off course you can kill that option, but that wouldn't change anything for the peeps who want demo.