Producing with mastering compressor on?

[leggie]

I have always considered mastering the holy grail of music to the point of shrinking from using a VST out of some kind of respect of the dark art, think Amused to death Roger waters for example.

So I'm recording down some ideas for a singer friend of mine who has shit speakers and I'm using MC more and more when I make the ideas, partially cos Im half deaf and the 'Punch' get's his attention.

Is this the norm now or at least acceptable and Should I feel dirty and accept Im a radio edit zombie ? if not what is a nice one to use

[mandolarian]

Rules are meant to be broken. You gotta do what works for you.

However, there are limitations you'll be building in that won't be easy to un-limit (pun intended).

If it doesn't work out, you can always buy a better pair of speakers for your friend. Let us know how the project runs out.

[leggie]

Rules are meant to be broken. You gotta do what works for you.

However, there are limitations you'll be building in that won't be easy to un-limit (pun intended).

If it doesn't work out, you can always buy a better pair of speakers for your friend. Let us know how the project runs out.

Fair comment thanks the original un-compressed files will always be available for modification if required..

Any suggestions for a mastering compressor for about $100 with lots of presets, great sound and nice analogue meters? Currently demoing Glue.

Thanks.

[jancivil]

'mastering compressor'. that's just words. learn how to *mix*, using compression, surgically. and disabuse yourself of this mystique of 'mastering'. you're perfectly set up to throw money at a problem you don't understand, believing that hype.

[leggie]

'mastering compressor'. that's just words. learn how to *mix*, using compression, surgically. and disabuse yourself of this mystique of 'mastering'. you're perfectly set up to throw money at a problem you don't understand, believing that hype.

When you say mix using compression do you mean on the master buss or per track or both? were only using electronic instruments and guitars not any real clever stuff like recording vocals and drum kits.

Currently trying out Ozone5, possibly barking up the wrong tree but sure does some nice things but maybe we need just a basic compressor to get the levels and saturation up for our tired old ears.

Thanks for your input, just saved me a few quid as I was as you say, set to buy something believing the hype.

[robogone]

learn how to *mix*, using compression, surgically.

I used to work in a multitrack recording studio in the early 80s and that word works well - "surgically" - compression was always looked at as something that was used to fix problems and the idea was to minimize its use. Ideally a musician would play with perfect dynamics and so it was really down to maybe applying a little at the final mix stage but really leaving it to the mastering to get heavy with compression if they needed to.

If it sounds good to you then do it, but IMO it means you're kind of skipping the intricacies of good recording and mixing practices.

[Jesse Gorter]

I think he means you may confuse mastering with mixing.

[leggie]

learn how to *mix*, using compression, surgically.

I used to work in a multitrack recording studio in the early 80s and that word works well - "surgically" - compression was always looked at as something that was used to fix problems and the idea was to minimize its use. Ideally a musician would play with perfect dynamics and so it was really down to maybe applying a little at the final mix stage but really leaving it to the mastering to get heavy with compression if they needed to.

If it sounds good to you then do it, but IMO it means you're kind of skipping the intricacies of good recording and mixing practices.

Interesting about the compressor looked at as a fix and minimise it's use.

At this time there is very little actual playing going into the music as most of it is produced electronically, Jamstix, Guitarist, Diva (played through Midiguitar) and Manybass also played through Midiguitar. This is for a purpose as the singer destroyed his guitar hand and my goal is to ease him into the world of DAW and VST's , as for skipping the intricacies of recording and mixing we have to rely on what we have learnt thus far which is not top shelf but not learner either. We will get mixing and mastering done at a pro level.

Great input thanks.

[leggie]

Ill try to find a way to upload a barebones track with Ozone5 on and off and maybe someone be kind enough to say if it's improved or not.

Is there a embedded Mp3 player at KVR ?

[leggie]

OK the first is without comp and the second with, has it improved it? be honest, sorry about the cheesey track



https://soundcloud.com/pipe-of-peace/lo ... comparison

https://soundcloud.com/pipe-of-peace/lo ... comparison

[codec_spurt]

I have always considered mastering the holy grail of music to the point of shrinking from using a VST out of some kind of respect of the dark art, think Amused to death Roger waters for example.

So I'm recording down some ideas for a singer friend of mine who has shit speakers and I'm using MC more and more when I make the ideas, partially cos Im half deaf and the 'Punch' get's his attention.

Is this the norm now or at least acceptable and Should I feel dirty and accept Im a radio edit zombie ? if not what is a nice one to use

Ask a dumb man a question, and you are halfway to the truth. If you get an answer.



Lots of people do this. Some swear by it. It's ok to do. Many people such as my self play about with the form as Picasso did. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. Not comparing myself to Picasso there btw.


Just one thing to bare in mind (shudder): if you do take this approach, bare in mind what you are doing.

For those that choose the opposite direction, then they have the luxury of choosing what compression/limiting/saturation to put on later. But for even those that choose the original root (of taking the easy way out and putting a compressor/limiter/saturator on the master 2 bus to start with), they can still change things later. Might need a bit more finessing, but it's easily doable.

I recommend: Voxengo Drumformer - a few millisecs of latency, but with a 'clipper' to behold, that is before the gating and 3 way multi-band compression.
Plus EQ with spectrum analyser. Voxengo Voxformer is also very good. If you can't grab that then try Voxengo Crunchessor. If that don't work then Voxengo Deft Compressor. Can you see where this is going...?

You could just use the free SSL modeled Bus compressor by FXpansion and be done with it. Maybe not as versatile but you get to where you want to be.

You are free to track away into as subtle or as heavy bus compression as you like.

Many people do this. It's not against the law. I wouldn't want to live without this method ever. Sometimes I track into just the one thing, sometimes I track into a chain. Sometimes I realise it is one holy mess and take them all off and re-render to the raw file, if it sounds better. Just keep your option open.

[leggie]

Great post Codec, I feel more inclined to experiment now rather than seek rules on where compressors should or should not be used.

I probably shouldn't have used the word Mastering as what Im really trying to get is the effect where lots more information of the sound source is brought up to my hearing level IE when you hear a lovely recording of an acoustic guitar or a vocal where you can hear every breath/fret noise and subtle nuance coming through, this even applies to say a 'Flatty' Techno tune where the simplest of bass lines can sound mind blowing.

The Voxengo Drumformer is fantastic, I had the demo downloaded before you suggested and got a bit lost with it but after a few hours tweaking I can hear how powerful it is (love the EQ) so my experimentation now will be using a compressor (almost certainly Voxengo) on each track and forget the master compressor thing for now.

This discussion has been most helpful and Im sorry to anyone who actually heard the example song I posted up, lest you think that's what Im up to

Love KVR, thanks all

[SODDI]

I never use any kind of compression on purely electronic tracks.

[leggie]

I never use any kind of compression on purely electronic tracks.

That's a good point, what kind of eqpt/sound source are you using?

Often I have 4 to 6 Diva's running (in draft mode) there I find I can pull and push a sound in or out of the mix just using a small filter tweak! using a compressor on Diva sounds seems to do nothing, curious It's only since trying to do Guitars, Basses and Vocals I have been struggling.

[jancivil]

'mastering compressor'. that's just words. learn how to *mix*, using compression, surgically. and disabuse yourself of this mystique of 'mastering'. you're perfectly set up to throw money at a problem you don't understand, believing that hype.

When you say mix using compression do you mean on the master buss or per track or both? were only using electronic instruments and guitars not any real clever stuff like recording vocals and drum kits.

Currently trying out Ozone5, possibly barking up the wrong tree but sure does some nice things but maybe we need just a basic compressor to get the levels and saturation up for our tired old ears.

Thanks for your input, just saved me a few quid as I was as you say, set to buy something believing the hype.

Well, I don't do anything on the master bus to color anything, or maximize. I put a limiter on for overload protection. I put compression on as needed on single channels... I use compression a fair lot but at the same time I would caution against using too much, if the reason is to gain advantage for a channel in terms of loudness, after a point it might be good to step back and reduce rather than add gain.

I use samples instruments which sometimes are a bit clean, so I do want some saturation, but I take it one thing at a time. I use an exciter fairly often. I use something called a Mastering Suite but I don't print a two-file and start 'helping' that, I mix for a final result.