KVR Audio

mztk · Post by **mztk** » Tue May 07, 2013 9:56 am

--- edited my comments out of course. foolish to
venture too much on such a broad topic, asking
for trouble...

Karbon L. Forms · Post by **Karbon L. Forms** » Sun May 12, 2013 7:24 pm

Saw this the other day.

Joel Zimmerman/deadmau5 doing a side-by-side of ABL2 and his newly acquired 303.

It takes to about 25mins in for him to find his ABL2 license. (He f**ks about with the big modular later on)

breakmixer · Post by **breakmixer** » Sun May 12, 2013 7:58 pm

kritikon wrote:

It's funk.

Lol, it's not funk - I used to refer to tracks like this as Garage music...some may say it just house though...but yes I agree it's not acid...

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Mon May 13, 2013 6:18 am

Karbon L. Forms wrote:Saw this the other day.

Joel Zimmerman/deadmau5 doing a side-by-side of ABL2 and his newly acquired 303.

It takes to about 25mins in for him to find his ABL2 license. (He f**ks about with the big modular later on)

That was boring on fast forward. At any rate, some have said that distortion helps to mask differences. The real challenge is in subtle square wave lines. I'm not a purist and I don't care that much, but, when I breadboarded the 303 VCO some years ago I found that the square waves were quite touchy and sensitive to component variation. Small differences in pulse width or shape manifested in large differences in sound. It is one thing that I think that the FR-777 does poorly.

YMMV.

mztk · Post by **mztk** » Mon May 13, 2013 10:27 am

wasn't it Albert Camus who said Hell is other people?

mztk · Post by **mztk** » Mon May 13, 2013 10:33 am

breakmixer wrote:
Lol, it's not funk - I used to refer to tracks like this as Garage music...some may say it just house though...but yes I agree it's not acid...

yeah but it merits a spin every now and then.

yeah, ok, agree,it was a really bad example to pick.
if you consider the period, though, everything did get
mixed up together, which was more the point, in terms
of a cultural movement. which you'd refer to as 'acid house'.

are we going to say that 'acid' doesn't really refer to acid
house, and only refers specifically to music featuring a 303?
(cue totally pointless non-debate

)

breakmixer · Post by **breakmixer** » Mon May 13, 2013 5:51 pm

mztk wrote:
are we going to say that 'acid' doesn't really refer to acid
house, and only refers specifically to music featuring a 303?
(cue totally pointless non-debate )

Actually I would - Acid house without a 303 is, well, house!

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Mon May 13, 2013 6:52 pm

breakmixer wrote:
mztk wrote:
are we going to say that 'acid' doesn't really refer to acid
house, and only refers specifically to music featuring a 303?
(cue totally pointless non-debate )
Actually I would - Acid house without a 303 is, well, house!

So this isn't acid? Ok, it's acid techno, or acid breaks, but I'd still just call it acid.

I guess I disagree that a "303" is necessary, but, I I'm trying to imagine what acid without an "acid line" sounds like? Josh Wink used the MC202 AFAIK, and my live acid tracks used a modified SH101, then a Nord Modular, and finally a carefully programmed K2000 patch, before I got an FR-777.

What they all had in common was that they featured a repetitive lead line with a squelchy filter and some notes with porta whereas other notes did not. None of the above sounds "exactly" like a 303, but, me, and my audience, thought of it as acid/acid techno.

breakmixer · Post by **breakmixer** » Mon May 13, 2013 7:22 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
So this isn't acid? Ok, it's acid techno, or acid breaks, but I'd still just call it acid.

That wasn't my point - I meant that other house tracks around at that time without 303/acid lines were not acid house, I mean you had Freestyle, Garage, Deep House, Chicago House, Hip House, Detroit Techno, Italian House - all sorts of different sub-genres of house, techno and other styles all mixed together...it wasn't 'all' acid house back then!

You're turning my point of view into an arguement.

dark_virus · Post by **dark_virus** » Mon May 13, 2013 10:27 pm

THIS is Acid:

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Tue May 14, 2013 2:10 am

breakmixer wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
So this isn't acid? Ok, it's acid techno, or acid breaks, but I'd still just call it acid.

That wasn't my point - I meant that other house tracks around at that time without 303/acid lines were not acid house, I mean you had Freestyle, Garage, Deep House, Chicago House, Hip House, Detroit Techno, Italian House - all sorts of different sub-genres of house, techno and other styles all mixed together...it wasn't 'all' acid house back then!

You're turning my point of view into an arguement.

got it! Yep, you need an acid line, at least a hint of an acid line. It's gotta squelch or cry a bit to be acid.

mztk · Post by **mztk** » Tue May 21, 2013 7:23 pm

acid house - in the UK - was a cultural movement that
took hold as people rejected 80s 'yuppie' values.
(discuss)

in its roots though, things kicked off at places like
the Paradise Garage with people like Larry Heard.
maybe all the 'acid' variants did feature 303 b-lines.

where do you place people like Juan Atkins and Derrick May?
'Techno', right? and then some people will argue about the
difference between Techno and Tekno, and that's where i switch
off. acid could be described as a subgenre of techno. but
the house it came from had more to do with soul and disco and
(real)electro, and there's a huge distance from early acid house
artists to eg: acid techno (which i consider distinct from what
could be termed chicago acid house). mind you, i didn't have a
clue at the time, and certainly not about how the music was made.

ah: Blip (or whatever it was called) was an interesting genre that
was sort of compatible (etc etc)

breakmixer · Post by **breakmixer** » Tue May 21, 2013 9:00 pm

mztk wrote:acid house - in the UK - was a cultural movement that
took hold as people rejected 80s 'yuppie' values.
(discuss)

in its roots though, things kicked off at places like
the Paradise Garage with people like Larry Heard.
maybe all the 'acid' variants did feature 303 b-lines.

where do you place people like Juan Atkins and Derrick May?
'Techno', right? and then some people will argue about the
difference between Techno and Tekno, and that's where i switch
off. acid could be described as a subgenre of techno. but
the house it came from had more to do with soul and disco and
(real)electro, and there's a huge distance from early acid house
artists to eg: acid techno (which i consider distinct from what
could be termed chicago acid house). mind you, i didn't have a
clue at the time, and certainly not about how the music was made.

ah: Blip (or whatever it was called) was an interesting genre that
was sort of compatible (etc etc)

early original acid house was born from Chicago house, Phuture - Acid Trax, it was Chicago House but it was also Acid House.

Yes I'd place Juan and May as Techno, original Detroit Techno.

Chicago and Detroit had their own sound, but it sounded close, so close that years ago(1989) I couldn't understand the difference between them, I can now of course.

BTW - The earliest Acid Track below from 1982. Pre-dates any chicago Acid House! Bassline kicks in at 0:36...

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Wed May 22, 2013 5:28 am

mztk wrote:acid house - in the UK - was a cultural movement that
took hold as people rejected 80s 'yuppie' values.

To some degree, although it was mainly about getting off your tits to a new style of music with a matching new style of drug. And I don't agree with the thing about it all being mixed up. CUltural in that it was different to not get pissed up, and to have crowds that were actually friendly to each other, but still ultimately about the music'n'drugs. In the North the raves were pretty specifically Acid House music for quite a while. It was 303s. It wasn't mixed up with all that housey shite. If a rave wasn't 303s, hypnotic and I have to say - formulaic, it wasn't considered a decent rave, or a rave at all. Things changed soon enough after, as they always do, but no - Acid raves were really very specific. I may have been drug-addled at the time, but I knew what I was going to. It was 303s or nothing. Stuff quickly expanded, but at the time, Acid House was specific. Raves were specific. It was not anything goes. Of course it may have been different for those woofters down Sarf.

Not saying that it isn't great for things to change - musically that always happens and good things come from it. At the time though Acid was Acid. There were the later generic dance raves, but late 80s it was Acid House raves. Even at the time some clubs were mixing it up, but they weren't considered Acid.

breakmixer · Post by **breakmixer** » Wed May 22, 2013 6:35 pm

kritikon wrote:
mztk wrote:acid house - in the UK - was a cultural movement that
took hold as people rejected 80s 'yuppie' values.
Not saying that it isn't great for things to change - musically that always happens and good things come from it. At the time though Acid was Acid. There were the later generic dance raves, but late 80s it was Acid House raves. Even at the time some clubs were mixing it up, but they weren't considered Acid.

1988 maybe, but in the uk we had rave tracks in 1989 like

Orange Lemon - Dreams Of Santa Anna
Richie Rich - Salsa House
Qaurtz - Meltdown
Seduction - Seduction
Todd Terry Project - Weekend
Shut Up & Dance - 5678
Mr Lee - Get Busy
Westbam - Don't Hold Back
Blapps Posse - Don't Hold Back
Frankie Bones - Call It Techno
KC Flightt - Planet E(Hip Hop Mix)
Manic MC's - Mental
Cry Cisco - Afrodizziact
Rhythim IS Rhythm - Strings Of Life
Doug Lazy - Let It Roll

These are just a few late 80's rave tracks that do not have a 303 on them, I could name many more....

One big one that did was Voodoo Ray by A Guy Called Gerald, probably the biggest acid tune of 89, yet the use of the 303 was quite minimal on it...

Making ACID Music???