IK Multimedia's requirement to run DAW as administrator blocks access to user account presets

[Compyfox]

Here's something funny for you:

- two profiles in admin mode (one for office, one for studio).
- WL7 runs IKM plugins in demo mode (on render), Cubase as full version
- I'm also on Win7


So, even if I am an admin, I need to run my hosts in admin mode.

Ok now I'm confused! So as I wrote above to AC, you are doing this already and have issue?

Yes!


As far as I know, it has something to do with the compiler used. Certain plugins do NOT work properly if you don't run your host in "admin mode" on top of your admin profile.

I wrote the IKM support, they said "this is the need - there is no other fix".


I haven't tried the "install as admin" trick yet. And funny enough, it's only happening if I want to render in WL (not Cubase, which is not running in Admin mode). In "real time", there are no issues.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[jdnz]

As far as I know, it has something to do with the compiler used. Certain plugins do NOT work properly if you don't run your host in "admin mode" on top of your admin profile.

This is only yhe case if you still have uac enabled - with it on even though your account has admin rights software is running as 'user' level (hence the need for 'run as administrator'). Turn uac off and the problem goes away - no issues with ikm stuff on my win7 machine ( with uac off )

[LAGinz]

I run a bunch of IK plugs (including Sampletank--and even bridged) in Studio One 2.5.1, Win. 7 using admin. privileges-with no problems, let alone any nightmarish ones. Have no real need to use File Explorer, since the drag and drop "Files" browser in S1 is so easy to use. It is also my impression from the S1 forums that many users do this. YMMV.

[glokraw]

i can't see why not to have it logged in permanently to the admin account, with UAC on, and a good anti virus/firewall.

I agree, and some linux are that way by default, and some let you
log out as user, and login to start a new admin-only session.
I suppose there is some risk that a brand new malware is not yet
detected/fixed, but I would hope DAW users are not going to wander about
in enemy territory

Sometimes linux and some apps don't have harmonious permissions,
and running all audio as admin, is a temporary solution.
Cheers And hooray for the weekend

[codec_spurt]

That Ik stuff spawned this thread.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=123114+


Still they spam me.

I'll never use their software ever again.

But who cares about me, or how I think?


They are a machine.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[codec_spurt]

I can see we are going to have to or having to go to dust our little titties off.

Get wiped down. Go on to the nitty gritty.

TheoM

do you not realise that we are the new sacrifice for their spawn?

Just saying?

I think u are a good bloke and all the rest, but..


f**k

[ObiWonder]

Here we go, after talking to our development team we wanted to clarify what is going on...

RUNNING a plug-in is the issue. All of our NEWER plug-ins can RUN without administrative privileges in modern operating systems (Windows 7 and above). Administrative privileges are required to write files in system folders (like c:\Program Files) and in system registry keys. When one of our newer plug-ins is USED it never needs to write files or preferences in system locations: presets are saved in user folders and other information is saved in the user registry.

This means the Run As Administrator command is not needed to run a newer plug-in in a DAW or as a Standalone app. Newer plug-ins means anything that was released after AmpliTube 3, including T-RackS 3 and 4, ARC 1 and 2 etc. All our LEGACY plug-ins including SampleTank 2.x were developed before the restrictions on system folders were introduced in Windows. SampleTank for example expects to be able to write Presets and the instrument database in it's installation folder (typically c:\Program Files\IK Multimedia) at RUN time. To grant this privilege to SampleTank when it is ran inside a DAW, the only possibility is using Run As Administrator on the DAW (or our standalone) executable file.

What happens if you don't use Run As Administrator on a Legacy plug-in? Normally if software expects to be able to write a file in folder and the write fails, it will throw serious errors to the users or it will just crash. If Microsoft would have released Windows 7 and it just blocked access to system folders letting all Windows XP applications crash, nobody would have ever installed it. What they did instead is redirect the file and registry writes to different folders that are separated from system folders and hidden in the user file system. This way the app is still able to write the file and both the app and the user think everything is ok. For the most part in many common applications this is true.

However, for plug-ins there is a problem: the redirected file operations are written in folders specific for each application. The files saved by SampleTank when used in Pro Tools are not the same that are seen when SampleTank is used in Cubase or as a Standalone. In other words if you run a legacy plug-in without using Run As Administrator it may seem everything is working correctly, but you may have unexpected results.

INSTALLING a plug-in is a different matter. An installer obviously needs to run with Administrative privileges because it must write in system locations. HOWEVER, an installer knows that it needs to run with Admin privileges and will ask the user automatically to be granted the admin rights by asking for the password. All our installers, including the majority of Legacy apps, do this automatically so again there is no need to Run As Administrator.

The Authorization Manager is an in-between because it is an Application that needs to have access to system folders and registry in order to Authorize our LEGACY plug-ins. Like the installers example above, our Authorization Manager knows that it needs Admin permissions and asks automatically to the user to grant them by inserting the Admin password.

In summary the Run As Administrator command is only useful in some specific cases, i.e. when the app was released before Windows 7 and was not aware of folder restrictions. All our modern applications will work on Windows Vista, Windows 7 (and Windows 8 for the most part), without special tricks.

With all of that said, the next generation of SampleTank will be released later this year solving these issues.

[gamecat666]

thats great that the new ST3 will be okay, but is there ANY chance that there could be a quick intermediate patch/fix for ST2?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[ObiWonder]

thats great that the new ST3 will be okay, but is there ANY chance that there could be a quick intermediate patch/fix for ST2?

Probably not, we are more focused on finishing SampleTank 3 then halting production and testing to start a new project on SampleTank 2.5. I promise its close. GUIs were shown to a few back in January at NAMM.....

[gamecat666]

thats a shame but i appreciate the honesty

[AC222]

Here we go, after talking to our development team we wanted to clarify what is going on...

RUNNING a plug-in is the issue. All of our NEWER plug-ins can RUN without administrative privileges in modern operating systems (Windows 7 and above). Administrative privileges are required to write files in system folders (like c:\Program Files) and in system registry keys. When one of our newer plug-ins is USED it never needs to write files or preferences in system locations: presets are saved in user folders and other information is saved in the user registry.

This means the Run As Administrator command is not needed to run a newer plug-in in a DAW or as a Standalone app. Newer plug-ins means anything that was released after AmpliTube 3, including T-RackS 3 and 4, ARC 1 and 2 etc. All our LEGACY plug-ins including SampleTank 2.x were developed before the restrictions on system folders were introduced in Windows. SampleTank for example expects to be able to write Presets and the instrument database in it's installation folder (typically c:\Program Files\IK Multimedia) at RUN time. To grant this privilege to SampleTank when it is ran inside a DAW, the only possibility is using Run As Administrator on the DAW (or our standalone) executable file.

What happens if you don't use Run As Administrator on a Legacy plug-in? Normally if software expects to be able to write a file in folder and the write fails, it will throw serious errors to the users or it will just crash. If Microsoft would have released Windows 7 and it just blocked access to system folders letting all Windows XP applications crash, nobody would have ever installed it. What they did instead is redirect the file and registry writes to different folders that are separated from system folders and hidden in the user file system. This way the app is still able to write the file and both the app and the user think everything is ok. For the most part in many common applications this is true.

However, for plug-ins there is a problem: the redirected file operations are written in folders specific for each application. The files saved by SampleTank when used in Pro Tools are not the same that are seen when SampleTank is used in Cubase or as a Standalone. In other words if you run a legacy plug-in without using Run As Administrator it may seem everything is working correctly, but you may have unexpected results.

INSTALLING a plug-in is a different matter. An installer obviously needs to run with Administrative privileges because it must write in system locations. HOWEVER, an installer knows that it needs to run with Admin privileges and will ask the user automatically to be granted the admin rights by asking for the password. All our installers, including the majority of Legacy apps, do this automatically so again there is no need to Run As Administrator.

The Authorization Manager is an in-between because it is an Application that needs to have access to system folders and registry in order to Authorize our LEGACY plug-ins. Like the installers example above, our Authorization Manager knows that it needs Admin permissions and asks automatically to the user to grant them by inserting the Admin password.

In summary the Run As Administrator command is only useful in some specific cases, i.e. when the app was released before Windows 7 and was not aware of folder restrictions. All our modern applications will work on Windows Vista, Windows 7 (and Windows 8 for the most part), without special tricks.

With all of that said, the next generation of SampleTank will be released later this year solving these issues.

Thank you Ohbik. By any chance could you tell me if the IK Black 76 came out before Windows 7? I never had any problems whatsoever in Windows 8 until I bought the IK Black 76 and every since then, nothing has fixed this problem. I did put in a ticket but it hasn't been resolved but figured since you seem to be aware of something the issues, you might be able to better direct me to a solution. Thank you.

AC