This 16 year old producer from London really has something special

[pc2000]

And I dunno why anyone here gets all soppy about a poor 16yr old kid getting criticised. If he's seriously ambitious about it, he actually won't care shit if some nearly 50yr old criticises him. If things are right in the world 16yr old music should be criticised by oldies. He shouldn't want acceptance by us. For sure I wouldn't have been overly happy if the next generation up like my favoured music at that age. He'll care more if his peers criticise it and don't buy it. If he's got any sense - comments here from old farts (like me) will be water off a duck's back. If it's not, then he has to learn really quick, because he's going to get it all the time if he does succeed, and he'll get far worse from his own peers I suspect. Anyway - I'm not slagging his music as such - as already said, I've heard far worse - it's OK. Nothing special, but OK. I certainly don't like his production/mixing and his age is irrelevant to that. I hope he'll get better at it, I pray that's not the target standard...please.

Actually, I'm not soppy about the kid. I've made plenty of crap as well as decent tunes at that age. I'm not certain if it's actually a 16yr old teen that made the track, so I have no emotional attachment. For me, it's more about seeing the amount of energy and effort invested into negative mob action. Hell...10 pages and counting of pure bashing.

I mean...people are judging this track as though it's presented as a professionally produced track in a commercial studio by a seasoned pro. I would assume that a typical 16yr old learning to produce would be deficient in their knowledge of mixing techniques. Shit, a lot of older- experienced musicians still are baffled about what to do when mixing and how to effectively use EQ and compression, so I don't see the relevance on bashing the kid about this aspect.

I've had experiences when I was younger; where I asked someone to listen to some of my tracks. I played some tracks for an older male cousin and didn't tell him I made the tracks. He was into them and was grooving along and made positive comments as he listened. I purposely didn't tell him I produced the music beforehand because I wanted an honest response. Well, after he finished listening and asked who produced the music and I informed him that I did... his attitude completely changed! He went from thinking it was good music to it being some crap I made, which then made it not real music. I've had this experience with older males in particular.

So, when I see these sorts of mob attacks, it just reminds me of how older males tend to bash things younger folks do till there's nothing left but dust.
Hopefully you guys have a supporting spirit towards your own children and not into bashing their dreams until they wanna give up on life. Just saying.

BTW: I think the track is average and not particularly special. Maybe the title is overstated and that's why people have out their pitchforks.

[debra1rlo]

Maybe the title is overstated and that's why people have out their pitchforks.

Not me. I haven't listened. I have merely been baling hay today.

[vurt]

I'm actually not surprised at how anal a lot of these responses are. Seems to be a lot of pointless nick-picking and musical self-righteousness. I'd bet a lot of the negative posters don't pick apart their own music to such a degree and likely couldn't handle what they're dishing out when it comes to their music being bashed.

I think you'd be surprised at how much most of us do pick apart our own efforts. As for handling what we dish out, I never get tired of pointing out that if you're making music for yourself, you don't tend to post it. I don't exactly because I don't care what others think of it. I'm not after success or recognition or anything else. I make music entirely for myself. And I never get tired of pointing out that for anyone to post their music out there, get used to criticism or stop posting it. I assume the kid wants to "make it" otherwise why publicise his music? Music's there for being bashed or for being loved. It's always been that way. Again, tough titty. I often hear "I make music for myself". Which is fine - I always fail to believe it when these people publicise their music though.

you can be encouraging and critical at the same time though.
i just perhaps expected better than "its crap" (to paraphrase) from musicians.

yes, it's important to know WHY it's crap. prevention and all that.

exactly
although im not sure "its crap because i only listen to [insert genre a million miles away musically from genre concerned]" is a valid criticism.

[vurt]

Hopefully you guys have a supporting spirit towards your own children and not into bashing their dreams until they wanna give up on life. Just saying.

i used to burn my sons paintings in front of him, saying "try harder and maybe one day we will indeed put one on the fridge!" when he came home from nursery.
id like to think i helped in some way

[debra1rlo]

I'm actually not surprised at how anal a lot of these responses are. Seems to be a lot of pointless nick-picking and musical self-righteousness. I'd bet a lot of the negative posters don't pick apart their own music to such a degree and likely couldn't handle what they're dishing out when it comes to their music being bashed.

I think you'd be surprised at how much most of us do pick apart our own efforts. As for handling what we dish out, I never get tired of pointing out that if you're making music for yourself, you don't tend to post it. I don't exactly because I don't care what others think of it. I'm not after success or recognition or anything else. I make music entirely for myself. And I never get tired of pointing out that for anyone to post their music out there, get used to criticism or stop posting it. I assume the kid wants to "make it" otherwise why publicise his music? Music's there for being bashed or for being loved. It's always been that way. Again, tough titty. I often hear "I make music for myself". Which is fine - I always fail to believe it when these people publicise their music though.

you can be encouraging and critical at the same time though.
i just perhaps expected better than "its crap" (to paraphrase) from musicians.

yes, it's important to know WHY it's crap. prevention and all that.

exactly
although im not sure "its crap because i only listen to [insert genre a million miles away musically from genre concerned]" is a valid criticism.

indeed

some people would say this is crap but I think it's brilliant. it's probably just brilliant crap. but they're nice boys. for real.

[Zombie Queen]

it's important to know WHY it's crap. prevention and all that.

Crap prevention is not healthy. Some thing just gotta find a way out.

[sjm]

I mean...people are judging this track as though it's presented as a professionally produced track in a commercial studio by a seasoned pro. I would assume that a typical 16yr old learning to produce would be deficient in their knowledge of mixing techniques. Shit, a lot of older- experienced musicians still are baffled about what to do when mixing and how to effectively use EQ and compression, so I don't see the relevance on bashing the kid about this aspect.

I think this might also be missing the issue completely - at least some of us. To me, it's the music that's important, not the mixing/production level (because someone else can always take care of that). A good song is a good song, whether it be recorded on a 30 year old tape player with a built in microphone or in a 2 million dollar studio. I couldn't care less about whether he can EQ, all that matters is the music. I guess that's what makes me an old cynical fart - I'm much more interested in songwriting skill and musicianship than the ability to compress the shit out of a track.

My mixing skills are terrible - so the kid is obviously a lot better at it than I am. But a well produced track isn't the same as amazing music (which is what the thread title leads you to believe you're getting if you click on play). I guess this also gets to the heart of the difference between a "producer" and an "artist"...

[Sendy]

it's important to know WHY it's crap. prevention and all that.

Crap prevention is not healthy. Some thing just gotta find a way out.

I have an ex who was lax about that kind of thing. It didn't end well.

[SODDI]

it's important to know WHY it's crap. prevention and all that.

Crap prevention is not healthy. Some thing just gotta find a way out.

I have an ex who was lax about that kind of thing. It didn't end well.

No shit.

[vurt]

My mixing skills are terrible - so the kid is obviously a lot better at it than I am. But a well produced track isn't the same as amazing music (which is what the thread title leads you to believe you're getting if you click on play). I guess this also gets to the heart of the difference between a "producer" and an "artist"...

the kid didnt write the thread title

[jancivil]

...a melody produced by someone who has approached melody in musicianship...

You can hear this kind of musicianship in elevators and shopping malls the world over. A lot of it is well crafted melodic drivel. My point being there is a lot of very ordinary unimaginative music out there crafted by very musically knowledgeable musicians.

It's funny that two of the comments on the page for the track in question mention melody. Aside from the fact that the track sounds like some loops pasted over each other there is no doubt a melody within albeit slightly buried under too many layers.
It's there but it seems you either can't hear it or refuse to hear it. That's fine. Your understanding of melody probably isn't compatible with this kind of music. And getting you to see it may be like getting someone to see either the old or young lady in the image below. Some people just can't see one or the other.

this is just such bullshit. I heard the beginning. it was melody-driven. it was just bad melody. my understanding of melody is not the problem here.

The Rock and Roll of the 50's now considered classic was noise to the older generation once. The inherent melody or musical craft within didn't make a blind bit of difference to the old generations attitude towards it. They thought it was total crap and to them it WAS total crap, period.

This is relevant to my remarks not at all. There is absolutely no element of surprise here. Musically. There is nothing new, whatsoever. I make some really wild music; there is nothing reactionary in me or my remarks.

I agree with your comments about the "Producer" tag. It's lazy. But then again it's not the first time in history some people lazily applied a label where it don't really belong.

that's not what I meant at all. what I meant, which I actually detailed pretty well I thought, was that one decides 'I shall be a Producer' rather than 'a composer/a musician' for a REASON, which means (as you clearly understand) "layering some loops on"... some loops. never worry about making a rhythm work by your own hand, here's the quantize settings, if you think it ought to swing or groove, there's a routine for that. it's just that quick a path, in relatively no time at all you're being celebrated as 'something really special' and 1400 views means you need some more help in the promotion. of this crap.

[jancivil]

I'm actually not surprised at how anal a lot of these responses are. Seems to be a lot of pointless nick-picking and musical self-righteousness. I'd bet a lot of the negative posters don't pick apart their own music to such a degree and likely couldn't handle what they're dishing out when it comes to their music being bashed.

Fine, build a little straw man to beat up. how many of us do you know one thing about? I couldn't be more self-critical.

people's opinions are useful to a certain degree, getting another *perception*, but what I'm dishing out can't possibly apply to what I do. OTOH I have seen 'this mix leaves a lot to be desired' from someone that was better at mixing and of course I took it and learned from it.
if this was a matter of the youngster himself posting at the cafe and wanting feedback I think this is a completely different thread.

Maybe you recognize yourself in this crap and need to dismiss the whole attitude against it.

This track or tracks has little moment to me; I'm reacting to a whole notion of music that I find to be wrong, dishonest and vacuous and this is the necessary outcome of that.

[jancivil]

I mean...people are judging this track as though it's presented as a professionally produced track in a commercial studio by a seasoned pro. I would assume that a typical 16yr old learning to produce would be deficient in their knowledge of mixing techniques. Shit, a lot of older- experienced musicians still are baffled about what to do when mixing and how to effectively use EQ and compression, so I don't see the relevance on bashing the kid about this aspect.

You wanted the criticism to be from people that aren't critical of themselves. I judge my own tracks as though professionally produced tracks. When I produced demos to present to UA when I was 16, guess what I was going for? Did we hire amateurs to engineer and mix? I sounded like Clapton on the guitar solo FFS.

The point of talking about the production should be so self-evident: "This 16-year old producer from London has something really special". What does "producer" mean? The production is the skill advertised, or isn't it. Does it mean something else? It kind of functions as an excuse for a lack of musicianly action as far as I'm concerned. Therein lies the entire problem. I'm not bashing any kid. As an object presented to us here, we're clicking on something like it's going to be amazing and it's just not very good.

[Tricky-Loops]

+11 pages about a 16 y.o. musician -- the "Everything Else" section seems to be a much better place for publicity than the Music Cafe...

[vurt]

+11 pages about a 16 y.o. musician -- the "Everything Else" section seems to be a much better place for publicity than the Music Cafe...

if you do, i suggest you pretend to be younger. its a bloody tough crowd :hihi;