Waves Elements or Steinberg Retrologue?

[fisherKing]

try synthmasters demo and listen to the tracks in their sound cloud page and the choice gets real easy especially when you look at the price and see its advertisement for a special code that knocks the price down even further all over KVR. Each preset bundle has a demo of the presets on soundcloud so check it out before you spend money you can't get back

i have both synthmaster & element...2 very-different plugs.... (and both have their uses)...

[echopark]

Retrologue.

no wup !!!

[tibah]

Hi emotica! So does Halion's VA have all the features Retrologue has and some additional stuff? Like unison, for instance. (I love Retrologue unison)

Added: I just discovered that Halion 4 has a demo....

I actually picked that up by reading KVR. By the looks of it, it even seems to offer 3 OSCs. Can't see any Unison options though. Hope the demo reveals more. The player at the product page previews stacking voices in the multi-oscillator.

[UltimateOutsider]

As a Cubase owner I do have Retrologue but I'm not sure I've ever even looked at it. After this thread perhaps I might.

Just wanted to put a word in for Element: Waves has had it on sale for $99 like 3 times since it was released, so keep an eye on their deals.

Anyway, I can't think of any plugin that's quicker and easier to program than Element. Every parameter is in one Window, with no hidden tabs, etc. (Again, probably haven't even seen Retrologue up close, so don't know if it's the same in that respect.)

When I'm working on a new song, I use Element on every track during the tracking/arranging phase and design temporary patches for each part on the spot because I can do it so quickly.

Element's resource requirements are really low; I've had up to a dozen of them going at a time with no performance hits. (Whereas I can only go up to maybe 6 NI Massive instances before my interface starts to snap, crackle, and pop.)

Soundwise, Element is adequate but not unique; it's a purely utilitarian synth. The only thing I really don't like about it is the Unison; it's too harsh and not very configurable.

But I'm basically using Element during the production of every new track, even if I don't end up using it for the final mix. I think it's a great buy at the frequent $99 sale price.

Might pipe back in once I have a chance to work with Retrologue.

[AstralExistence]

try synthmasters demo and listen to the tracks in their sound cloud page and the choice gets real easy especially when you look at the price and see its advertisement for a special code that knocks the price down even further all over KVR. Each preset bundle has a demo of the presets on soundcloud so check it out before you spend money you can't get back

dude, synthmaster is not the answer for everything. thats all you suggest in every synth comparison topic. if it was, we would all use synthmaster

[UltimateOutsider]

Hmm. Just messed with Retrologue a bit. Only 2 envelopes, 2 LFOs, and it's not the most intuitive synth I've seen. It was appearing it didn't have any unison at all until I put OSC 1 into "Multi" mode and that little "Number of Oscillators" field appeared.

But a nice, lush sound.

I'm thinking there's room for both of these synths.

[Ingonator]

i have both synthmaster & element...2 very-different plugs.... (and both have their uses)...

Same here and got a lot of other plugins too.

I guess i would no have paid 200$ for Element (got the special deal at JRR shop) but it seems to be on sale most of the time (either at Waves and/or at JRR shop):
http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=351#voucher

Personally i was never a real fan of the Steinberg software (both synths and Cubase). FWIW i had tried the demo versions of most of their software and especially the synths.
The only software of them i use on a regular basis is Wavelab Elements 7 for editing samples or single cycle waveforms (and sometimes to edit audio demos).


Ingo

[Igro]

Hmm. Just messed with Retrologue a bit. Only 2 envelopes, 2 LFOs, and it's not the most intuitive synth I've seen. It was appearing it didn't have any unison at all until I put OSC 1 into "Multi" mode and that little "Number of Oscillators" field appeared.

But a nice, lush sound.

I'm thinking there's room for both of these synths.

Well, i guess they tried to make a really easy to use synth. Also i,ve tried now the built-in Halion synth and it has the same nice sound. Additionally it has four envelopes and two veeery versatile LFOs. Also a global unison. The only thing i didn't understand is how to toggle between two filters when they are in serial or parallel mode. But interface is pretty clunky, i must say.

[Lotuzia]

Of the current crop of VAs doing circuit modelling that I own......Xils Oxium is my favourite for decent sound and CPU balance (Compared with D16 Lush, Waves Element, FXpansion SoundSquad, Tal UNO, Uhe Ace)

Oxium is really good and used to love it...but I don't like that the filter self-oscillation can't be turned off.

Hmm I'm not sure I understand the real meaning of this sentence....

To turn the filter self oscillation "off" just reduce the resonnance, just like on a real analog synthesizer.

[Igro]

Of the current crop of VAs doing circuit modelling that I own......Xils Oxium is my favourite for decent sound and CPU balance (Compared with D16 Lush, Waves Element, FXpansion SoundSquad, Tal UNO, Uhe Ace)

Oxium is really good and used to love it...but I don't like that the filter self-oscillation can't be turned off.

Hmm I'm not sure I understand the real meaning of this sentence....

To turn the filter self oscillation "off" just reduce the resonnance, just like on a real analog synthesizer.

I mean it self-oscillates even when i didn't press the play button in my DAW. Also there are some noises on the background... Any noise that is mixed with the the oscillator sound is really confusing.

[Lotuzia]

Of the current crop of VAs doing circuit modelling that I own......Xils Oxium is my favourite for decent sound and CPU balance (Compared with D16 Lush, Waves Element, FXpansion SoundSquad, Tal UNO, Uhe Ace)

Oxium is really good and used to love it...but I don't like that the filter self-oscillation can't be turned off.

Hmm I'm not sure I understand the real meaning of this sentence....

To turn the filter self oscillation "off" just reduce the resonnance, just like on a real analog synthesizer.

I mean it self-oscillates even when i didn't press the play button in my DAW. Also there are some noises on the background... Any noise that is mixed with the the oscillator sound is really confusing.

Well, If the masks are playing a role in the background, you can use the STOP button on the masks tab. Lots of the presets dont use the masks however. Then I can UL a preset wich is pure self resonnance. Not the single noise signal in it. Then you can listen to the Jupiter 8 soundbank demos : More than close to the original Jupiter 8 sound, so definitely analog, and there again no trace of noice, unless wanted withb the noise oscillators. In certain circumstances the adaptative filter model can exhibit a bit of noise. You should closely look at the level of the oscillators feeding the bus in this case. Oxium is very versatile, it will do what you want it to do, but you might have to learn first the ins and hows, and listen to the presets to get a feel of its versatility.

[zerocrossing]

Hmm. Just messed with Retrologue a bit. Only 2 envelopes, 2 LFOs, and it's not the most intuitive synth I've seen. It was appearing it didn't have any unison at all until I put OSC 1 into "Multi" mode and that little "Number of Oscillators" field appeared.

But a nice, lush sound.

I'm thinking there's room for both of these synths.

Sure, it's not a "feature laden" synth, but what "retro" synth was? I think it's pretty clear they were going for a simple and great sounding synth, and osc type control and the mod matrix are excellent (though moves it outside of what I'd consider "retro" or "analog" so why the name?)

I found Element to be lack luster in comparison and it crashed my machine. I just bought Retrologue.

[Igro]

I'm still wondering how such a big company as Waves didn't manage to make a proper fat sounding unison? Element's one sounds just so weak in comparison to Retrologue. Also why Elements has so weirdly abrupt Decay tails? Retrologue envelopes are fine-tuned so precisely, kudos here. My decision is already made here.

[Teksonik]

I absolutely love Retrologue. Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no 64 bit VST 2.4 version. I know it's also VST3 but only one host I use supports the VST3 standard........

[fluffy_little_something]

I'm still wondering how such a big company as Waves didn't manage to make a proper fat sounding unison? Element's one sounds just so weak in comparison to Retrologue. Also why Elements has so weirdly abrupt Decay tails? Retrologue envelopes are fine-tuned so precisely, kudos here. My decision is already made here.

I bought Element again meanwhile

Have you tried the shape knobs in the envelope sections? All controls in Element are very effective, including those envelope shape knobs.

Anyway, I have played around with Element for two hours now, my impressions are mixed. There certainly are things to be improved, but I find it much better than what most people on KVR seem to think.

Those two synths are rather different. Retrologue has a softer, finer, more polished sound, very good for pads thanks to the much better unison mode. Element can't compete with it in that area.

Element sounds very analog to me, more so than Retrologue. I guess many people who say Element sounds weak are not really familiar with old analog hardware. It did not sound nearly as pleasant and full as Retrologue, either. Those old synths had few waves and hence they did not sound lush, either. But each wave on its own sounded strong, which I find in Element as well. I assume that we are so used to Dune etc. with dozens, hundreds or even thousands of simultaneous waves by now that we tend to think of Element's sound as weak.

Element is more authentic in that respect, at least in my view. And it feels very much like hardware, very direct, not least because the controls are so effective. The entire effects column on the right side is simple, yet quite powerful. You turn a knob or move a slider and the sound changes a whole lot. I like that direct interaction. Unfortunately the weird knob - mouse interaction makes it difficult to dial in the right dose of an effect, or anything for that matter. I hope I will get used to it soon.

Where Element shines is with leads and bass, and with percussive sounds, not least because of the Punch button. It makes snare and kick sounds that one can actually use. On most VA synths they sound weak, like some placeholders while the sampler is being repaired

When you use the powerful equalizer, it can sound extremely tight and punchy. It has a dry, solid bass foundation. Just one oscillator with pulse wave and the right equalizer settings delivers a punch that comes close to a real bass. The resonance of the filter is rather musical, not the irritating type.

Many of the factory presets are rather weak in my view. Maybe just not my style, dunno, I would not know what to do with most of them.

I think it would make sense to combine both synths, being rather different they would complement each other well
If I had to pick just one of them, it would be a tough decision. I am not really fond of either company, But I guess I would pick Element, not least because of the equalizer.

I am looking forward to programming patches, want to see if Element can do Oberheim brass and stuff like that as well, have not seen any in the presets, yet.