Use Ableton's stock [processing] plugins or no?

[mellotronaut]

Flanger, Phaser, and Reverb are ones I'd sort of reject. Everything else ranges from passable to truly great.

+1

Maybe another way to think about the world of plug-ins is, there are a lot of quality options for everything and it's not always about what's 'best', but what's the best choice for some particular sound, or what feels right just on personal preferences. Ableton's stuff is generally a plausible choice.

yes

[kvruzer666]

Thanks a lot to everyone for their replies.

I think I'll just stick to the stock plugins for now and try to figure out if I need to change some later on.

[djscorb]

I agree with xh3rv in that the Flanger and Phaser suck monkey balls!

However, the reverb can be useable in edm for certain things. For long kick booms the default patch with the decay time cranked to 7 seconds or more does the job nicely!

The chorus on the default patch set to 100% wet can be a great one stop solution for making something that is narrow super wide and great special effects can be coaxed out of it pretty easily.

The Saturator is excellent and one of my favourite and most used plugins.

The Grain Delay can be fantastic for downpitching percussive sounds for grit and special effects.

Utility is a fantastic building block in racks and is constantly useful for mixing.

The delays are perfectly serviceable and quick to set up.

Erosion can be useful for subtle lo-fi fx or adding synthetic top end to dull sounds.

Redux is a competent bit crusher.

Compressor is very convenient for sidechaining but imo won't compete with dedicated third party compressors for other duties.

The other effects get very little if any use from me.

As others have said they should be perfectly adequate for most things so use em until you have more of an idea of what you might need. It's posible to spend a lot on effects but also more than possible to get pro results using nothing but freeware.

Cheers

Scorb

[CPCompany]

I made a similar choice when I started on Logic. I bought a few plug ins pretty much for the sake of it and reading recommendations.After buying a few, I realised that the extra outlay wasn't really worth it, especially as I make music just as a hobby.

The stock plug ins in Logic and Ableton 9 are more than good enough for my ears. Although I do come from the school of "sounds good enough" rather than striving for sonic perfection.

[JoeCat]

I don't think anyone making EDM would come up short with Live's stock effects, especially the essentials like EQ, compression, and most will probably function just fine for the majority of recorded/traditional music, unless you need a particular sound.

I've always steered somewhat clear of Reverb and Amp/Cabinet, but I'm sure they are capable in better hands (and skipping the presets).

[Echoes in the Attic]

I think the channel strip type effects are fine (EQ, compressors), delays are perfectly good and there some cool special fx like the grain delay and frequency shifter that I like.

I don't like any of the modulation effects (phaser, flanger, chorus) at all. I think they're terrible. I also don't like the reverb much at all, but I can see how it could be useful as an effect sometimes, especially on eco, which is less metallic but not very smooth. Never liked the saturation effects much and haven't been a huge fan of the filters either.

[grymmjack]

Decided to ask here instead of the Ableton forum since it could be biased...

Anyway...

I'm new to music production, therefore I don't yet understand the difference between EQs, compressors, reverbs, etc. in terms of quality and such. Basically, I'm just wondering if you guys think the Ableton stock EQ8, compressor, reverb, delay, etc. are good quality or should I look elsewhere for those type of plugins? Do you guys think some are good and some aren't? Which ones are which?

I'm gonna be trying to learn processing and I'd like to start on plugins that I will actually use. So, I don't wanna try to teach myself on Ableton's stuff and then find out later, once I get an ear for production, that those plugins aren't that great and have to learn all new plugins, you know?

Thanks in advance.

You can get a LONG way with the included ilk of processors. Add racks, and you can do almost anything you need. Few exceptions, seriously.

You can do some amazing shit with just live suite and no VSTs at all, and if it were not for my steamy love affair with some of my existing plugs, I wouldn't even bother with VSTs in Live. The CPU use of some of the instruments is not so great (I'm looking at you AAS) but the effects are generally OK and sound quite good.

Once you figure out how to roll your own dry/wet rack (and it's not phase perfect mind, but it's close enough for me) you don't need much more.

I wish Ableton would elaborate on the racks and give us more knobs, different types of controls, etc, but I guess they answer such with M4L.

Seriously you can get nearly any sound/processing you would want with only few exceptions just using Lives own native devices.

[grymmjack]

To close the loop on my statement: valhalla DSP plugins, ohmicide, timeless, trash2, permut8 + live suite aaaand sorted. (of course I selfishly hoarde and use other things, but only because I bought them and try to use them as much as possible

[jonnyG]

If you like thm and they suit the tone of your compositions then use them. If not, then don't. Simples!

Never have got on with the reverb - horrible, clangorous comb filtery thing (to me, anyway) and i can't remember the last time I used the flanger and phaser, but pretty much everything else works for me. Rack integration and typically low CPU usage is a bonus, as is the unified GUI philosophy (although it's maybe time fo a lick of paint in that department).

I'd suggest just using the native fx and if any specifically don't work for you then it's time to go shopping. But there's no need to go splashing out on a sackful of third party plugins before giving the native fx a try just because some else tells you to...

[Aubrey Lamont]

For those of you who eventually bought 3rd party plugs: what did you replace first?

So far, I've only found the need to replace the limiter (I use Barricade), and I got Bifilter2 for free on a giveaway here. I'll probably look into Audio Damage or Uhbik for my modulation FX (esp. phaser and flanger) needs.

I really like the native saturator, overdrive, and delays. And the reverb is serviceable. It goes without saying that the compressors and EQ are great. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the native plugs.

[Synthbuilder]

I don't like any of Live's modulation effects so I use these:

Flanger - TAL's Flanger
Phaser - Reaktor's Kleinstein and VAZ Modular's phaser.
Chorus - Valhalla Ubermod and some of my own Reaktor ensembles.

I do use Live's reverb but I have my own Live effects rack that makes it sound like the Yamaha FX500's soft focus preset. I also use Valhalla Ubermod, Shimmer and Vintage Verb.

Live has good synths in the Suite. Sampler is excellent and Operator is very good too. Although for FM stuff I tend to prefer Native's FM8. Live's Analog, however, is just horrible and I would recommend U-He's DIVA and Zebra.

Tony

[robogone]

They are OK and have got better in each new version IMO.

I agree that the reverb is weak and I have struggled to make it sound good, and usually revert to a third party reverb. The other one I think could use some improvement is the flanger which seems to digital and really lacks any character.

Overall though I find them on par with most other major DAWs and in general better than the majority of DAWs.

[V0RT3X]

I don't even know where to begin.

Live has some excellent effects built into it's system that are all very capable of professional results all on their own. It really boils down to the user in the end and what they want.

I have a TON of plugins at my disposal that can replace Abletons built in fx while i mix, and half the time I will use the Live FX. The CPU usage on them is incredibly low and the sound quality is pretty good for what you get.

You won't find vintage emulations apart from the Glue inside abletons FX department, but you do get a bunch of excellent modern FX to cover a broad range of sounds!

If you find you want more options than what the built-in FX give you then maybe try out some 3rd party plugins.

[robogone]

I agree with xh3rv in that the Flanger and Phaser suck monkey balls!

I definitely agree about the flanger, it just has no character, but the phaser is interesting in what it can do - it's just not good for traditional phaser FX.

[KevWestBeats]

The stock fx in Live to me are hit or miss but that is any DAW. I really like the eq and compressors that Live comes with. The delays are okay. The reverb is not for me. The midi tools are really good. The vocoder is nice. So yeah there are things in it I like and others I do not.