KVR Audio

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Thu May 30, 2013 4:31 pm

irvg wrote:Any idea where to install the database on Mac? The manual mentions an installer that doesn't exist for the mac at least.

The manual explains clearly how to install it - don't know what manual you were reading but it clearly says "there is no installer".

http://www.neuronsynth.com/files/Neuron ... -HowTo.pdf

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Thu May 30, 2013 4:42 pm

Breeze wrote:...I don't see why the authors couldn't fix it and bring it up to speed as a reasonably priced commercial product...

These were my thoughts exactly. I have downloaded it but not tried it yet, but even as I read the press release I thought, "So the value of this plug is either $800 or free?" I guess I could understand not wanting to spend a lot of time updating and supporting it... but then give or sell it to another developer or open source it.

Anyway, I was very interested in it when it first came out, but like the rest of the world, the cost and reports of problems quickly put me off. I put it on a MacBook that I use for surfing. It's not the newest computer... 2.2 ghz Core 2 Duo with 4 gig o' ram. If it works, I'll consider it a fun toy. If not, maybe a little time wasted.

Here's a question, I don't have any VST host on this machine at all. Should I throw Bidule on it? I'm not sure what hosts are good with VST 2.1.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Thu May 30, 2013 4:45 pm

So far Bidule is the only one I have been able to find that works.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Thu May 30, 2013 4:49 pm

aMUSEd wrote:So far Bidule is the only one I have been able to find that works.

Thank you sir. I shall give it a go.

Oh, btw, in terms of a plug in that is as good as the hardware it emulates, check out the Korg virtual Wavestation. When it came out I was stunned to find it actually sounded a bit better due to them using a higher bit depth for the wave data.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Thu May 30, 2013 4:52 pm

Yes you're right, I forgot about that. In both cases the software is something of an improvement, the Neuron hardware I think only ran to 8 voices, the only limit on the software version is your cpu.

irvg · Post by **irvg** » Thu May 30, 2013 5:22 pm

aMUSEd wrote:
irvg wrote:Any idea where to install the database on Mac? The manual mentions an installer that doesn't exist for the mac at least.
The manual explains clearly how to install it - don't know what manual you were reading but it clearly says "there is no installer".

http://www.neuronsynth.com/files/Neuron ... -HowTo.pdf

Sorry, you're right. I was reading the other manual (for the original product)

lionscub68 · Post by **lionscub68** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:56 pm

I tried this Neuron VS today with unfortunate results.
2009 MacBook Pro 17" running 10.6.8, 32-bit.

Couldn't get it to be recognized in Live 8.3.5.

I could however get it to load in HostX 1.0.9.
However every single patch sounded like it was going through a bit-reduction plugin; distorted, for every patch.

I got it to load in Repear, but it only had a generic GUI with sliders.
I couldn't figure out Repear (it's not very intuitive), and in fact couldn't get it to reload a second time with an audio output. Chalk this failure up to my lack of caring to have the patience to make unintuitive hosts function.

Finally, I did get it to work in Plogue Bidule 0.9730 and figuring our how to route the MIDI and audio properly. Sounds good but it chokes quite a bit if you do any mod wheel action.

In all cases, the sustain pedal was not recognized.

It's a nice give to have free, but a bummer that it's only working as listed above. I like free stuff and gifts like this though. Perhaps in the future, this could bounce back. It almost looks like a sort of Alchemy or Omnisphere precursor.

Motion · Post by **Motion** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:52 pm

This is great....thanks for resurrecting one of my favourite synths...have managed to get it to work with VST/AU Manager 0.2rc3 which was done about 1 year ago (according to info) and supports VST SDK 2.1, have it running in Renoise 2.8.1 64 bit (which uses a native plugin bridge) on OSX 10.8.3

I managed to aquire a download of AU Manager here: http://syntheway.com/VSTAU.htm

Works in ugly vsti fine too (as mentioned in release notes) http://www.refusesoftware.com/products/feature/3

Thought it would be worth posting as it gives an insight to plans and progress, surely a huge amount of work, time and effort already.Many thanks

From Stephan Bernsee's Logs:

There are a couple of things that have been fixed in this version, such as the USB weirdness of the original version (like the one that could cause the VS to randomly eject hard disks potentially causing data loss), and about a ton of memory leaks.

Change Log:
Version 1.54
• Fixed a ton of bugs related to the NeuronVS user interface
• Plug in can now be used without the remote. Operation of the sticks is still
tied to the remote, so without the remote it's more like a factory preset player
Version 1.53
• Added feature to resolve symlinks and aliases to the NeuronDB (and Hartmann Music) folders. Your NeuronDB can now be anywhere on your hard disk as long as you have a properly named alias or symlink that points to it.
Version 1.52
• Added compatibility with MacOS X 10.8.x • Improved USB communication
• Other minor fixes, code cleanup
Version 1.51
• The <NUKE> controller is now more reliably recognized
• Fixed a memory leak that could cause a crash with some models • Removed soft clipping at the output (not required for the VS)
• Other minor fixes, code cleanup
Version 1.50
• First release of the refurbished Hartmann version

What's next?
Getting the NeuronVS to work on Intel Macs is a little project of mine that I started in my spare time after I found a CD with the sources when relocating the Prosoniq office. Until that time they were considered lost, so I was very happy that one of the former Hartmann developers apparently left if there as a backup. Since Hartmann Music went out of business in 2005 there is no official organization that would be able to continue the work that Axel and I started in 2000 so I decided to take on this challenge and do it in my spare time. Stefan Rapp, the former CEO of Hartmann kindly allowed me to use their plug in code, and being the CEO at Prosoniq I allowed myself to use my part, the Neuron DSP technology, to update the old project and distribute it.
While I'm not sure if that backup was the latest version I did fix a ton of bugs, such as memory leaks, the crappy USB / <NUKE> communication which was a total kludge and could cause some serious damage to external USB hard drives in the original version, as well as several issues with the DSP code that could cause the output to create silence or static.
Still, this is a first and totally untested version that is compiled against a VST SDK that has been deprecated by Steinberg and is no longer supported by most of the VST host developers. It's a long way to go to make this work on a more recent system or with more modern hosts. This part will need to be reworked when there is more time (which may be never, I don't know) - and funding.
Also, there is no Windows version of the sources, unfortunately. I will need to create them from scratch at some future point if I choose to do so.
The Prosoniq Neuron synthesis technology might again be used in some other projects of Prosoniq. I'd recommend you check out our web site from time to time to stay up to date, or follow us on Facebook

If this gets to 2.4 and without the Nuke controller needed to work the sticks (hopefully this can be fixed and is not somehow locked into the hardware?), the usual automation and midi cc support I would be happy to pay handsomely for it.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:19 pm

Operation of the sticks is already possible using host automation - for example anyone with NI Kore 2 can operate all knobs using the Kore controller and the template I made. Similarly it is possible to do the same using Lemur or any decent midi controller. It's just not as seamless as using the NUKE unless you have a midi joystick with the possibility of rapid switching between levels - multiple Joysticks would be ideal - Lemur also works well as you can operate multiple sticks at once. Konkreet Performer would probably also work well for this. My next task is to do that.

Breeze · Post by **Breeze** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:30 pm

About the Nuke joystick: I unfortunately don't have the Nuke or Kore, but I've been wondering if it's possible to emulate the joystick: is it just manipulating all the Resynator Scape and Sphere parameters at the same time?

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:55 pm

Breeze wrote:About the Nuke joystick: I unfortunately don't have the Nuke or Kore, but I've been wondering if it's possible to emulate the joystick: is it just manipulating all the Resynator Scape and Sphere parameters at the same time?

Yes it is possible I think to emulate it now (didn't used to be). The NUKE doesn't manipulate the scape and sphere controls at the same time but there is a button that enables moving between levels very quickly and I love the feel of the joystick (which is very comfortable, has perfect action, and even has a palm rest). However I really think the future is in multi touch controllers like Lemur or Konkreet Performer, which should offer a way to manipulate more than one control at a time (CPU permitting). I made a Lemur template ages ago (well before this release) that had XY's for every level at once, plus bouncy ball physics too, but need to update it and KP may be even better for creating evolving sounds with the Neuron.

Breeze · Post by **Breeze** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:55 am

Thanks aMUSEd. Time permitting I'll take a closer look at this myself; I'm just not clear on how it's all supposed to work (yes... RTFM... I know...). I also have both Lemur and KP.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:04 am

aMUSEd wrote:Operation of the sticks is already possible using host automation - for example anyone with NI Kore 2 can operate all knobs using the Kore controller and the template I made. Similarly it is possible to do the same using Lemur or any decent midi controller. It's just not as seamless as using the NUKE unless you have a midi joystick with the possibility of rapid switching between levels - multiple Joysticks would be ideal - Lemur also works well as you can operate multiple sticks at once. Konkreet Performer would probably also work well for this. My next task is to do that.

I'm looking though the manual and I don't see a way to control the spheres via midi. I'm running Neuron V on it's own computer and controlling it from my main music PC. I have a cool 3d joystick I'd love to try and make work with this.

On the other hand... I'm not hearing anything that totally floors me. So far I think I may abandon it and just go back to Absynth for these types of sounds. Of course I'm just going though the presets at this point to see what's up.

jue · Post by **jue** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:28 pm

Hello,

just a little remark to the NeuronDB folder

it has to be at /Library/Application Support/Hartmann Music/NeuronDB.

In the HowTo the space within Hartmann Music is not clearly to see...

BTW: I got a few Nukes here to sell, some used some never used, thisare complete original Neuron VS packs with Disks.
Please send a PM with your offer.

best
jue

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:52 pm

jue wrote:Hello,

just a little remark to the NeuronDB folder

it has to be at /Library/Application Support/Hartmann Music/NeuronDB.

In the HowTo the space within Hartmann Music is not clearly to see...

Copy your NeuronDB folder to /Library/Application Support/Hartmann Music/NeuronDB.

http://www.neuronsynth.com/files/Neuron ... -HowTo.pdf

How is that not clear?

New Hartmann Neuron VS ??