Learning major 2nd chords, HELP!

[jontah]

Hi!

I'm learning Major second chords at the moment, and I'm following some awsome tutorials from a guy called Terrence (Quaverbox).

But in his Major 2nd chords section where he is teaching us major 2nd chords, he says "lets move on - A minor 7", thus he is playing a D and B and not a E and B for instance. I really don't understand this. Can someone help me understand what he is playing?

I don't think he does this by mistake since he's doing it several times during the video even in other chapters.

Here's a short snippet from the movie (he plays this at 0.21 seconds in this clip down here):

http://www48.zippyshare.com/v/9564881/file.html

Please help me understand so I can move along with my practice.

Cheers.

Best,

J

[KBSoundSmith]

The D and B are accented non-chord tones which resolve upward to E and C, which are chord tones.


EDIT: and he effectively never plays an a-minor 7 chord, since he never includes a G (only A C E, a-minor, versus A C E G, a-minor 7).

[jontah]

The D and B are accented non-chord tones which resolve upward to E and C, which are chord tones.


EDIT: and he effectively never plays an a-minor 7 chord, since he never includes a G (only A C E, a-minor, versus A C E G, a-minor 7).

Okey, well how do I know when to chose those non-chord tones and which ones to go for? Why does he say A minor 7 when it isnt etc?

[JumpingJackFlash]

how do I know when to chose those non-chord tones and which ones to go for? Why does he say A minor 7 when it isnt etc?

My Introduction to ornamental, unessential, and non-harmony notes might be of some use.

Though I wouldn't worry about this type of thing until you have basic triads and such forth mastered.
See Introduction to Music Theory and Scales, Modes and Chords for example.

[KBSoundSmith]

The D and B are accented non-chord tones which resolve upward to E and C, which are chord tones.


EDIT: and he effectively never plays an a-minor 7 chord, since he never includes a G (only A C E, a-minor, versus A C E G, a-minor 7).

Okey, well how do I know when to chose those non-chord tones and which ones to go for? Why does he say A minor 7 when it isnt etc?

Ok, this answer may be a bit obtuse, but I'll give it anyway.

In the measures prior to the one containing the Am7 in question, he plays a "proper" Am7 chord, with A in the bass (as a small arpeggio going A E A, and note that all measures follow that pattern of root-fifth-root). Am7 (and seventh chords/chords with "dissonance/tension") is established in the language of this particular piece of music.

The following measure (the one labelled G2--which I prefer to write as Gadd2), notice that B and D (chord tones of G2) are in the upper voices.

In the Am7 measure in question, notice that B and D in the upper voices (chord tones in the previous measure) get played again, and are now non-chord tones since they do not belong to Am7 (they also occur on the beat, which is why they are called "accented" non-chord tones. The classification here would be "retardation" -- upward resolving suspensions, and in this case, there has been a voice exchange/register displacement of the non-chord tone members which can be confused with an appogiatura, but this is getting too technical. Just remember that they were part of the previous harmony, and now they are not part of the harmony but still being played).

The B and D resolve upward to C and E, completing the a-minor harmony. The G isn't entirely necessary here, since the B and D have already provided the tension that would otherwise be supplied by the G, maintaining the "tense" harmonic language of the piece. While this resulting chord is technically Am and not Am7, it doesn't really matter that much because the basic harmony and its function do not change, and tension was already supplied by the non-chord tones. The other part of it is voice leading--there really isn't an ideal spot to play the G in this measure.

Also, note that the chords listed above the measure are likely there to be improvised upon, and different players may or may not include a particular note based upon the patterns of their improvisation.

Honestly, he just chose a confusing example that has some nuances that he didn't explain (at least not in the short clip you provided).


As for when to use non-chord tones: when they sound good. There are different types which occur in different situations, you should spend time learning them, as that ultimately seems to be the real difficulty you are having with the examples being provided to you in the videos.

[jontah]

The D and B are accented non-chord tones which resolve upward to E and C, which are chord tones.


EDIT: and he effectively never plays an a-minor 7 chord, since he never includes a G (only A C E, a-minor, versus A C E G, a-minor 7).

Okey, well how do I know when to chose those non-chord tones and which ones to go for? Why does he say A minor 7 when it isnt etc?

Ok, this answer may be a bit obtuse, but I'll give it anyway.

In the measures prior to the one containing the Am7 in question, he plays a "proper" Am7 chord, with A in the bass (as a small arpeggio going A E A, and note that all measures follow that pattern of root-fifth-root). Am7 (and seventh chords/chords with "dissonance/tension") is established in the language of this particular piece of music.

The following measure (the one labelled G2--which I prefer to write as Gadd2), notice that B and D (chord tones of G2) are in the upper voices.

In the Am7 measure in question, notice that B and D in the upper voices (chord tones in the previous measure) get played again, and are now non-chord tones since they do not belong to Am7 (they also occur on the beat, which is why they are called "accented" non-chord tones. The classification here would be "retardation" -- upward resolving suspensions, and in this case, there has been a voice exchange/register displacement of the non-chord tone members which can be confused with an appogiatura, but this is getting too technical. Just remember that they were part of the previous harmony, and now they are not part of the harmony but still being played).

The B and D resolve upward to C and E, completing the a-minor harmony. The G isn't entirely necessary here, since the B and D have already provided the tension that would otherwise be supplied by the G, maintaining the "tense" harmonic language of the piece. While this resulting chord is technically Am and not Am7, it doesn't really matter that much because the basic harmony and its function do not change, and tension was already supplied by the non-chord tones. The other part of it is voice leading--there really isn't an ideal spot to play the G in this measure.

Also, note that the chords listed above the measure are likely there to be improvised upon, and different players may or may not include a particular note based upon the patterns of their improvisation.

Honestly, he just chose a confusing example that has some nuances that he didn't explain (at least not in the short clip you provided).


As for when to use non-chord tones: when they sound good. There are different types which occur in different situations, you should spend time learning them, as that ultimately seems to be the real difficulty you are having with the examples being provided to you in the videos.

cheers alot for the links and for this awsome answer!

I'm currently looking into the Major 2nd chords or ADD2 chords as you also call them. But to be honest, I'm struggling with finding a good catchy/memorable melody to put those ADD2 chords to, and therefore I find it hard to go on with practicing it since I don't have any good melody to go from. Since I've already practiced with his melody.

So the next question (which is beyond this matter or subject):

How do you really write a good melody? any tutorials or articles or videos about that? There must be some hints and tricks for it to happen.

Also, I see that I understand chord progressions and their relationships (I've been to a musical school for theory lessons and know much more than basics in this), but I don't understand how to blend them in different ways.

For example:

A standard progression would be: I IV VI V

I want to find new ways of doing chord progressions. Now when I start with the MAJOR chords I always get it to sound so freaking "happy". I want to be able to do GOOD minor chord progressions without having to rely on the I IV VI V progression. I want something more... lets say, better sounding? Usually the chords resolves to the tonic in the end of the sentence or bar, but that's not the case in all progressions, is it? Where do I learn about this too?

Thanks.

[jancivil]

there is such a thing as a '2 chord' which replaces the third with the second.

straight away there is 'non-chord tones, resolve thusly'. there is actually music that does not do this. that is a demand out of a convention. you can do what you want with music, actually.

an 'Add 2' is out of a jazz convention, most typically on a minor triad, so the second and minor third have this little twinge out of proximity at a semitone. B/C may 'resolve' to A/C, it may just be there for color, a desire for that sonority to lend poignance or what-have-you to the tune.

"How do you really write a good melody?" Absent experience with melodies, you don't. You've found a number of contexts in which to ask us what to read, or watch, but the thing that's missing I reckon is you working with melody. you have probably a surfeit of information that you can't so much apply.

There is a terrific amount of music out there to get your hands on and test your information on. Imagine a time where there was no internet... nobody online with a little tutorial for every little thing. we got on with it. I think the amount of time you search on the nets can be spent with real-time direct application. grok this: people that got to write music with facility did other people's music and absorbed it for a while first.

[BertKoor]

Imagine a time where there was no internet... nobody online with a little tutorial for every little thing. we got on with it.

That's right. All I started with was a guitar someone dumped in a skip and a piece of paper that showed (hand-written) the finger positions for the E, A, D, G, C and F chords. Just enough to play House of the Rising Sun, and the radio gave a constant stream of tunes to try to play along with and find the chords & notes.

[jancivil]

If you are looking for information to click

let's say I'm playing a Bb or F or C chord, I want to read up on...

where the experience with music hasn't...

I mean reading isn't doing. You don't know it works until you experience that it does, for you, then you investigate the hows and whys and wherefores... some of it is going to click from having seen it work consistently.

I think the thing to do is get some hands-on and learn songs that would work for you as a model, in tandem with some useful information, 'a good book on harmony'...

this is 17 months and you're in the exact same place.

you seem to think

There must be some hints and tricks for it to happen.

It hasn't worked like that, has it? All of this information you've canvassed for over this time, all the typing from KVRists at you, hasn't proved to be a recipe book, has it?

I'm struggling with finding a good catchy/memorable melody to put those ADD2 chords to

towards what end? what songs do you know that use them? what happens? where have they really worked for you in some music that you're excited about?
what are you doing?

It is kind of amazing to me how people think there is some way around going at this directly. Learn songs (off records by ear, with the fake book changes in hand), like I told you January 2012. If you'd been doing this kind of thing for the last year and a half, instead of kidding yourself, you would have some knowledge, from direct experience of things that worked, you'd have models before you and these, actually pretty simple concepts will have started to click. If this is for you. It doesn't have to be, it isn't for everyone. Reading and 'tips and tricks' is not where it happens, though.