How does a sound designer/producer/engineer get started to DJ?

[schnapsglas]

I have always thought of DJs as my sworn enemies, but I am being intrigued by the idea of live performance. So I suppose I should try it their way.

So I turned on my Traktor LE and looked at it like the first time I turned on Cakewalk.

I found a lot of resources for people going in the opposite direction (plenty) but not the other way around. What would you suggest?

[tibah]

Well, if the concept of simple DJing is familiar to you and you can use your background from producing, I don't really see the issue. Find 2 tracks, let Traktor match BPMs and try to find nice spots for the actual transition from A to B. With programs like Traktor it's more about finding the right tunes and cue points than to know about the technical aspects involved. Using EQ / filters to kill frequencies should be also common. Try to stick to the most simple form for now (2 tracks), then maybe start to do sets for 20-30 mins and so on.

[schnapsglas]

Well, if the concept of simple DJing is familiar to you and you can use your background from producing, I don't really see the issue. Find 2 tracks, let Traktor match BPMs and try to find nice spots for the actual transition from A to B. With programs like Traktor it's more about finding the right tunes and cue points than to know about the technical aspects involved. Using EQ / filters to kill frequencies should be also common. Try to stick to the most simple form for now (2 tracks), than maybe start to do sets for 20-30 mins and so on.

The thing is, I have to admit, the concept is not familiar. What do DJs do? A really honest question. What is a complex setup and a simple setup? What makes a set?

[tibah]

This is just my opinion but here we go...

Basically, your job is to keep a flow of music. No pauses, transitions from track A to B to C and so on. I started out with vinyl and turntables and the most difficult thing back then was to match the tracks in BPM, so you can layer them on top of each other, starting on the same beat and keeping them in sync. With digital audio that isn't really the issue, since you have instant BPM matching and also no flutter.

An easy setup would be 2 decks or 2 "players" so to speak. More complex concepts involve more decks e.g. mixing 3 songs together or having some tools, like a looped sound on deck 3 to throw in once in a while.

Now think about the most common EDM arrangements, leaving you with a 32bar intro and outro. The idea here would be to start track B, when the last 32 bars of track A are playing and use the fader to mix them both together. This can be done in a slower transition or even more abrupt or "instant", when the bass stops in Track A and Track B drops the bass at the same time.

This is if we are talking electronic dance music. Not that I'm totally putting you into the wrong drawer already.

[schnapsglas]

DJs and EDM DJs especially were my sworn enemies and I would have punched people for calling me a "DJ." But now I am starting to warm up to the idea.

It's certainly nicer than having to explain the art of mixing pink noise on top of two detuned squares!

Question: what percentage is real music, and what percentage is based on loops and other "bits"?

Another one: what is best beginner's controller? (or mixer or whole package...) Should I go for fake-vinyl setup? Something completely digital? What do people usually recommend?

[tibah]

Question: what percentage is real music, and what percentage is based on loops and other "bits"?

This is totally up to you. If you think about DJing with Live, it's only up to your imagination what you want to do. Simple tune mixing (finished productions), with or without effects, samples, loops, to spice things up. For now I would suggest to stick to the track-to-track formula to get familiar, unless you really want to perform your own music and not only mix tracks.

Another one: what is best beginner's controller? (or mixer or whole package...) Should I go for fake-vinyl setup? Something completely digital? What do people usually recommend?

I used any controller for this, as long as you can map things in a way that make sense to you, but I know there are some dedicated controllers for Traktor as well.

[1-2-Many]

Shouldn't an 'enginner' know how to spell Engineer?

[schnapsglas]

Shouldn't an 'enginner' know how to spell Engineer?

Oops, fixed that.

Is there a disadvantage to not using decks, but just controllers that mostly trigger (like Launchpad?)

[tibah]

Shouldn't an 'enginner' know how to spell Engineer?

Oops, fixed that.

Is there a disadvantage to not using decks, but just controllers that mostly trigger (like Launchpad?)

Sure enough. Having rotaries for your low end EQs / filters so you can kill the low end of one track and a hardware fader controlling a software fader are nice additions. If we are still thinking about the track-to-track DJ mix / set approach.

[theodore_whitmore]

What do GOOD DJs do?

1: play to the moment. A wedding DJ who plays hard trance instead of Dancing Queen, Sweet Dreams and similar mind-numbing cliches will clear the dancefloor in seconds and is by definition a bad DJ. That's an extreme example but the same principle holds whenever you're behind the decks. I've spun DnB tunes at 'general' EDM nights and found the best idea is to select big, obvious tunes that a non 'head' can latch onto easily-that sometimes means going against my own taste for the obscure and experimental. At full-on DnB nights it's been more important to find a niche and not stretch to far outside it. A neurofunk head isn't likely to be happy if I veer off into a little liquid funk mix.

2: play to the moment. Say you're at an all nighter. From 11-1 you want to hear a gradual increase in energy as you ease into the night. From 1-3 you're at your most lively and that is when you want to hear the big dancefloor smashers. From 3-5 it's time for the stripped to the bone minimal rhythms to keep you in a head nodding shuffle. Finally you need some nice, mellow beats to ease you into the dawn with the odd classic to shoot some energy into your dancing feet.

3: play to the moment. Step up to the decks and put on something that you know will get the crowd moving. Have three tunes you know will mix well with it, one that will drop the crowd straight into a deep groove, one with some epic potential to crank up the tension before you let it drop and one that will whip them straight into a frenzy. Now look at the crowd and judge where THEY want to go. Keep watching the crowd and working them. If they are losing interest throw on something obvious. If they are looking happy but tired put on something with a nice big breakdown. In general do they want to be lifted up, cooled down or kept right there in a deep groove?

Okay, you've said you saw DJs as the enemy in the past in which case I guess you might need to go out to a few nights and really immerse yourself in the culture of it. You need to get it from a dancers point-of-view rather than a producers or listeners.

In terms of the technicalities I wouldn't suggest a faux-vinyl setup. It takes a long time to learn to beatmatch well and it won't make you a better DJ. I would also recommend sticking to mixing tunes rather than getting clever with loops and FX. If in doubt don't break the flow and pull your audience out of the moment. Finally, have a gameplan. As I suggested I think it's a good idea to have the opening couple of tunes worked out. From there if you know your tunes well and you are comfortable with it then freestyle your tune selection. Or have a series of set-piece mixes (say 3-5 tunes long) that are easy to mix into and out of and have a particular direction and flow. It's generally a good idea in that case to have a point marked in the middle of the setpiece where you can mix out if you are losing the crowd.

[schnapsglas]

Okay, you've said you saw DJs as the enemy in the past in which case I guess you might need to go out to a few nights and really immerse yourself in the culture of it. You need to get it from a dancers point-of-view rather than a producers or listeners.

Thanks for the pointers. Let's call it the Deadmau5 position of "I don't care particularly about EDM and DJing." As I pointed earlier on KVR, my electronic music listening was done almost purely in living room setting, with no regards for dancing or live mixing.

But about faux-vinyl setup -- is it really enough to make cues stick together and go from a track to track? I guess I had a few run-ins with "DJs" who played their iPod playlists and didn't care to match beats or keys leaving that really awkward 10-second moment.

Well, maybe I answered my own question.

[theodore_whitmore]

Okay, you've said you saw DJs as the enemy in the past in which case I guess you might need to go out to a few nights and really immerse yourself in the culture of it. You need to get it from a dancers point-of-view rather than a producers or listeners.

Thanks for the pointers. Let's call it the Deadmau5 position of "I don't care particularly about EDM and DJing." As I pointed earlier on KVR, my electronic music listening was done almost purely in living room setting, with no regards for dancing or live mixing.

But about faux-vinyl setup -- is it really enough to make cues stick together and go from a track to track? I guess I had a few run-ins with "DJs" who played their iPod playlists and didn't care to match beats or keys leaving that really awkward 10-second moment.

Well, maybe I answered my own question.

Let's be honest. Anyone who goes to see Deadmaus is going for the name, the caricature and the few big tunes they know. If they get all those they go home happy. You're not Deadmaus so you might have to try harder. Watching a DJ who isn't concerned with the dancefloor is like watching a guitarist screwing his eyes shut as he embarks on a self-indulgent 20 minute jerk-off solo. Nobody wins. If you're not going to meet DJing at least half way then you'll be selling your audience and yourself short. It sounds like you might get more satisfaction from putting a proper, constructed live set of your own material together. Equally, your audiences expectations will be directed more towards engaging with the music and performance rather than waiting to be entertained.

Assuming you are working in Live you could have a few tunes ready using virtual instruments and split up into sections that you can tweak and rearrange on the fly. Add a couple of tracks of pre-warped tunes (for DJ style beat-matched mixing if the moment suggests it) and a track with some rendered ambient snippets for framing and transitions, maybe a few FX chains for freak-out moments. Within that you have the potential to move from listening music to dancefloor tunes relatively seamlessly as your taste dictates. Another advantage of a fairly organised set like that is it easy enough to integrate other musicians into it should you want to (try getting a keyboardian to play something meaningful over a tune they've never heard before that is half a tone sharp because you've pitched it up on the decks. Actually don't. It's guaranteed fail).

I think there is a relatively unexplored space between completely live-played (but generally set listed and pre-ordained) gigs and on-the-fly arrangements of pre recorded material. I'd be pretty interested to see someone explore that.

[schnapsglas]

I think there is a relatively unexplored space between completely live-played (but generally set listed and pre-ordained) gigs and on-the-fly arrangements of pre recorded material. I'd be pretty interested to see someone explore that.

Yes I would be interested in that. Thanks a lot.

Of course, even in bands I don't like people who play self-indulgent things against the listeners. But if I do DJ I want to do my side of the work as much as I can to keep it interesting (for both parties.) But I guess I really don't know how much is done live and how much a good DJ can do things on the fly.

[schnapsglas]

I would also like some recommendation for a nice DJ controller please!

[BertKoor]

I saw a USB DJ Controller at the LIDL lately...
Can't go wrong for an experiment at such a price. Buy something better once you really know what to look for.