Different types of compression, SSL vs 1176 vs 1a2a vs DBX160 ect...

[djanthonyw]

I'm just wondering if some compression gurus could shed some light on these different types of compressors. Out of these character compressors and emulations, I'm most familar working with SSL and am wondering what the others really have to offer that the SSL doesn't? E.G. The Glue or Solid Mix vs NI Vintage Comps. Is there really a point in getting all of these different options?

[V0RT3X]

I'm just wondering if some compression gurus could shed some light on these different types of compressors. Out of these character compressors and emulations, I'm most familar working with SSL and am wondering what the others really have to offer that the SSL doesn't? E.G. The Glue or Solid Mix vs NI Vintage Comps.

I imagine the people to talk to would be Dave Gamble or Andy Simper for all the technical stuff since they are both Gurus in this area. It would be nice to hear though from people who use it on a daily basis though!

I imagine that it also boils down to the actual emulations themselves as well in how each one performs on the material in question.

I know when I tried the DBX160 emulation from Native instruments on some acoustic drum samples it made the sounds really stand out but not in a harsh way. I never did get to test it on some Drum machine sounds.

[DaveGamble]

Hi,

I was just staring at the schematic for the SSL buss compressor, and it occurred to me that there's effectively only one capacitor inside the fed-back section of the sidechain circuit, and this did make me think things. I am still thinking.

Anyway, ask away!

Your opening question is on the difference between SSL (presumably buss comp, not channel strip), 1176, la2, dbx160.

Weeeeellll. Ultimately, they're all doing roughly the same thing; there's no deep, fundamental difference; they all have an audio path, which contains a gain stage, and a sidechain circuit which computes the applicable gain reduction.

Of that list, the 1176 is feedback, the others are feed-forward, though that actually doesn't mean a great deal. (though the SSL has a "simulated" feedback system inside the sidechain circuitry)
Ultimately, they all have different shapes for attack, release, and compression "knee". Little idiosyncratic offsets/thresholds etc that make them slightly different.

The dbx160 rose to prominence because it's extremely straightforward! It does EXACTLY what it says on the tin! dbx did amazingly well making extremely accurate chips for logging and VCA, and the 160 is a great unit, because it just compresses! It's an "ideal" compressor, in the sense that it just does what it should do. It's very popular as a live-sound thing, because it's just so easily usable for fixing live problems. I don't really think you'd describe is as very "characterful", per-se, but it's very good. An easy analogue replacement for something like a stock DAW compressor, but quick, reliable (and very well built!)

The 1176 is important because it allows All-Buttons mode! Of course, you can overfixate on exactly what it does to transients (I do), and the high noisefloor (which makes it sounds breathy), but in historical terms, it matters because it goes nuts! It has linear attack/release curves (like the LA2A), which certainly CAN make for aggressive/crunchy sounding processing. Not many units offer you linear attack/release, which is a shame, and it's pretty much a staple for drums!

The LA2 is in many ways spiritually connected to the 1176, but the slow-response time of the opto which it uses to gain-adjust means that it's hard to make it sound aggressive. It's a lovely tube-design, so you could overdrive it if occasion called for it, but what's REALLY fun is that attack and release are linked. With a preset pot on the circuit board! So it's just a set-and-forget unit. There's a certain truth that if something has only two knobs on (and a switch), and you wiggle 'em both, for 30sec, and you don't like what you hear, it's a pretty low risk way to try something!

The SSL is a magnificent British design by (my hero) Trevor Stride. Attack/Release curves are... not exactly log... but not exactly NOT log... Most of the circuit is compensated... except where it's not! Its simulated-feedback sidechain gives it the ability to be fairly subtle when used gently, and more audible when you crank the ratio. Really what's fun about this circuit is that it's been ear-tweaked to sound good. It's effectively made from the same parts as the dbx, but in a somewhat different arrangement.

Does that answer anything? I love talking about dynamics. Can you tell?

Dave.

[V0RT3X]

Hi,

I was just staring at the schematic for the SSL buss compressor, and it occurred to me that there's effectively only one capacitor inside the fed-back section of the sidechain circuit, and this did make me think things. I am still thinking.

Anyway, ask away!

Your opening question is on the difference between SSL (presumably buss comp, not channel strip), 1176, la2, dbx160.

Weeeeellll. Ultimately, they're all doing roughly the same thing; there's no deep, fundamental difference; they all have an audio path, which contains a gain stage, and a sidechain circuit which computes the applicable gain reduction.

Of that list, the 1176 is feedback, the others are feed-forward, though that actually doesn't mean a great deal. (though the SSL has a "simulated" feedback system inside the sidechain circuitry)
Ultimately, they all have different shapes for attack, release, and compression "knee". Little idiosyncratic offsets/thresholds etc that make them slightly different.

The dbx160 rose to prominence because it's extremely straightforward! It does EXACTLY what it says on the tin! dbx did amazingly well making extremely accurate chips for logging and VCA, and the 160 is a great unit, because it just compresses! It's an "ideal" compressor, in the sense that it just does what it should do. It's very popular as a live-sound thing, because it's just so easily usable for fixing live problems. I don't really think you'd describe is as very "characterful", per-se, but it's very good. An easy analogue replacement for something like a stock DAW compressor, but quick, reliable (and very well built!)

The 1176 is important because it allows All-Buttons mode! Of course, you can overfixate on exactly what it does to transients (I do), and the high noisefloor (which makes it sounds breathy), but in historical terms, it matters because it goes nuts! It has linear attack/release curves (like the LA2A), which certainly CAN make for aggressive/crunchy sounding processing. Not many units offer you linear attack/release, which is a shame, and it's pretty much a staple for drums!

The LA2 is in many ways spiritually connected to the 1176, but the slow-response time of the opto which it uses to gain-adjust means that it's hard to make it sound aggressive. It's a lovely tube-design, so you could overdrive it if occasion called for it, but what's REALLY fun is that attack and release are linked. With a preset pot on the circuit board! So it's just a set-and-forget unit. There's a certain truth that if something has only two knobs on (and a switch), and you wiggle 'em both, for 30sec, and you don't like what you hear, it's a pretty low risk way to try something!

The SSL is a magnificent British design by (my hero) Trevor Stride. Attack/Release curves are... not exactly log... but not exactly NOT log... Most of the circuit is compensated... except where it's not! It's simulated-feedback sidechain gives it the ability to be fairly subtle when used gently, and more audible when you crank the ratio. Really what's fun about this circuit is that it's been ear-tweaked to sound good. It's effectively made from the same parts as the dbx, but in a somewhat different arrangement.

Does that answer anything? I love talking about dynamics. Can you tell?

Dave.

This is what i love about being a member at KVR!

Thanks for all this Dave!

I personally enjoy the DBX160 & SSL emulations.

What do you think about the valley people Dyna-mite? Is it pretty good for aggressive compression? (btw that rhymes )

[schnapsglas]

Hi,

I was just staring at the schematic for the SSL buss compressor, and it occurred to me that there's effectively only one capacitor inside the fed-back section of the sidechain circuit, and this did make me think things. I am still thinking.

Anyway, ask away!

Your opening question is on the difference between SSL (presumably buss comp, not channel strip), 1176, la2, dbx160.

Weeeeellll. Ultimately, they're all doing roughly the same thing; there's no deep, fundamental difference; they all have an audio path, which contains a gain stage, and a sidechain circuit which computes the applicable gain reduction.

Of that list, the 1176 is feedback, the others are feed-forward, though that actually doesn't mean a great deal. (though the SSL has a "simulated" feedback system inside the sidechain circuitry)
Ultimately, they all have different shapes for attack, release, and compression "knee". Little idiosyncratic offsets/thresholds etc that make them slightly different.

The dbx160 rose to prominence because it's extremely straightforward! It does EXACTLY what it says on the tin! dbx did amazingly well making extremely accurate chips for logging and VCA, and the 160 is a great unit, because it just compresses! It's an "ideal" compressor, in the sense that it just does what it should do. It's very popular as a live-sound thing, because it's just so easily usable for fixing live problems. I don't really think you'd describe is as very "characterful", per-se, but it's very good. An easy analogue replacement for something like a stock DAW compressor, but quick, reliable (and very well built!)

The 1176 is important because it allows All-Buttons mode! Of course, you can overfixate on exactly what it does to transients (I do), and the high noisefloor (which makes it sounds breathy), but in historical terms, it matters because it goes nuts! It has linear attack/release curves (like the LA2A), which certainly CAN make for aggressive/crunchy sounding processing. Not many units offer you linear attack/release, which is a shame, and it's pretty much a staple for drums!

The LA2 is in many ways spiritually connected to the 1176, but the slow-response time of the opto which it uses to gain-adjust means that it's hard to make it sound aggressive. It's a lovely tube-design, so you could overdrive it if occasion called for it, but what's REALLY fun is that attack and release are linked. With a preset pot on the circuit board! So it's just a set-and-forget unit. There's a certain truth that if something has only two knobs on (and a switch), and you wiggle 'em both, for 30sec, and you don't like what you hear, it's a pretty low risk way to try something!

The SSL is a magnificent British design by (my hero) Trevor Stride. Attack/Release curves are... not exactly log... but not exactly NOT log... Most of the circuit is compensated... except where it's not! Its simulated-feedback sidechain gives it the ability to be fairly subtle when used gently, and more audible when you crank the ratio. Really what's fun about this circuit is that it's been ear-tweaked to sound good. It's effectively made from the same parts as the dbx, but in a somewhat different arrangement.

Does that answer anything? I love talking about dynamics. Can you tell?

Dave.

Dave, I love your enthusiasm. I don't use Compassion, but sure we could use more people like you, who thinks about sound every day

Could you give us a rundown of how these are fundamentally different from modern units like elyisa, Vertigo, Shadow Hills, etc?

[schnapsglas]

This is what i love about being a member at KVR!

Thanks for all this Dave!

I personally enjoy the DBX160 & SSL emulations.

What do you think about the valley people Dyna-mite? Is it pretty good for aggressive compression? (btw that rhymes )

Hey V0RT3X, what is rhyming here?

[V0RT3X]

This is what i love about being a member at KVR!

Thanks for all this Dave!

I personally enjoy the DBX160 & SSL emulations.

What do you think about the valley people Dyna-mite? Is it pretty good for aggressive compression? (btw that rhymes )

Hey V0RT3X, what is rhyming here?

Aggress + Compress

It actually doesnt rhyme now that i look at it..

[valhallasound]

I love talking about dynamics. Can you tell?

Dude. PLEASE feel free to continue!

Sean Costello

[V0RT3X]

I love talking about dynamics. Can you tell?

Dude. PLEASE feel free to continue!

Sean Costello

+111

[DaveGamble]

This is what i love about being a member at KVR!

Thanks for all this Dave!

I personally enjoy the DBX160 & SSL emulations.

What do you think about the valley people Dyna-mite? Is it pretty good for aggressive compression? (btw that rhymes )

Alas, I don't know the Dyna-mite. Although Dynamite was the project codename for Compassion
Feel free to send schematics and I'll analyse

Dave.

[V0RT3X]

This is what i love about being a member at KVR!

Thanks for all this Dave!

I personally enjoy the DBX160 & SSL emulations.

What do you think about the valley people Dyna-mite? Is it pretty good for aggressive compression? (btw that rhymes )

Alas, I don't know the Dyna-mite. Although Dynamite was the project codename for Compassion
Feel free to send schematics and I'll analyse

Dave.

Found this via Google

http://srtalumni.com/SRT_Manuals/Valley ... namics.pdf

Also Softube made a emulation
http://www.softube.com/index.php?id=dmite

Hope that is of interest!

[solidtrax]

Please continue Dave

[schnapsglas]

[djanthonyw]

Thanks so much for that great reply, Dave! It does answer some things, I guess I'll have to try the demos of the Vintage Compressor bundle from NI, just to see, but ultimately I would love it if my current selection of compressors already covered what they can do as I'm looking to narrow down my tool set.

[DaveGamble]

Dave, I love your enthusiasm. I don't use Compassion, but sure we could use more people like you, who thinks about sound every day

Could you give us a rundown of how these are fundamentally different from modern units like elyisa, Vertigo, Shadow Hills, etc?

They're not fundamentally different.

Things like the elysia/vertigo can be thought of as enhanced dbx160 type designs - very clean, precise - less noise, more precision, and neat features.

The Shadow Hills, if memory serves, is interesting because it's essentially an LA2A and an 1176 in a box!
(with some neat wiring to make it nice to use)

Dave.