This is what really sells soft synths to me...

[Ingonator]

As Reaktor 5 got the Pro-52 filter isn't there already an ensemble that recreates the synth?

Just found this and will try to have a look:

https://co.native-instruments.com/index ... tchid=8854

https://co.native-instruments.com/index ... tchid=9776

https://co.native-instruments.com/index ... chid=10699

https://co.native-instruments.com/index ... tchid=3870

Last one is mentined to be a Pro-53 emulation.


UPDATE:
All 4 ensembles include the Pro-52 filter module. In the third one you could switch to a diode laddr filter (with the "DL" switch)

Feature wise the last one seems to recreate the Pro-53 and it also sounds nice.
It's some time ago that i tested Pro-53 (and used Arturia Prophet since around 7 years) so i don't know how close it is.
This one only got 26 presets while the other got more.


The second ensemble got some additional features (including filter modes) in a menu at the small display.
The second one seems to be an updated version of the first one (which is included in a collection of multiple synths).


With those ensembles avauiable it should be possible to improve them if necessary. Maybe someone with both Reaktor and the Pro-53 could compare them sound wise.


Ingo

[carrieres]

thanks Ingo, i will check this

[Sound Mechanics]

Thanks for the replies - went a little off-topic though

but still interesting.

Still can't get a softsynth to match the analog character of my DSI Mopho. Even the best software synths although sounding greta in themselves seem to lack a grungyness - the hardware cuts through in a different pleasing way.
I tried to match the excellent PolyKB to my Mopho by using eq but it got a bit too harsh sounding.

Also the Japan song has quite a bit of reverb which starts to blur the boudaries between hardware and software.

oh no.... I've taken it even further off-topic

[electro]

Still can't get a softsynth to match the analog character of my DSI Mopho. Even the best software synths although sounding greta in themselves seem to lack a grungyness - the hardware cuts through in a different pleasing way.

Oddity, OP-X and a few others are close and indistinguishable from hardware within certain parameter ranges, but Reaktor Monark, Tal-Uno-LX, DIVA, and TAL Bassline-101 are already 100% there.

[electro]

As Reaktor 5 got the Pro-52 filter isn't there already an ensemble that recreates the synth?

Just found this and will try to have a look:

https://co.native-instruments.com/index ... tchid=8854

https://co.native-instruments.com/index ... tchid=9776

https://co.native-instruments.com/index ... chid=10699

https://co.native-instruments.com/index ... tchid=3870

Last one is mentined to be a Pro-53 emulation.


UPDATE:
All 4 ensembles include the Pro-52 filter module. In the third one you could switch to a diode laddr filter (with the "DL" switch)

Feature wise the last one seems to recreate the Pro-53 and it also sounds nice.
It's some time ago that i tested Pro-53 (and used Arturia Prophet since around 7 years) so i don't know how close it is.
This one only got 26 presets while the other got more.


The second ensemble got some additional features (including filter modes) in a menu at the small display.
The second one seems to be an updated version of the first one (which is included in a collection of multiple synths).


With those ensembles avauiable it should be possible to improve them if necessary. Maybe someone with both Reaktor and the Pro-53 could compare them sound wise.


Ingo

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=379083

[zerocrossing]

[Actually, it DOES hold up very well agains Diva, in some things even much better so (filter overdrive, mixer feedback/overload, filter FM).

Um...have you had your hearing tested lately? Lol. The Pro-53 sounded extremely shrill and unconvincing in every way imaginable. It certainly had a "sound," I agree, but better than Diva? No way. More capable? Sure, but that's different than sounding good. I think you're probably alone in that regard. The Waldorf D-Pole did certain things better than Cytomic's The Drop, such as bit depth/sample rate massacring, but it sounds like horse piss.

-Sam

Yeah, I totally agree with this, though I have a bit more fondness for D-Pole. It's been a while since I used it but... horse piss? OK, well maybe. I've never had horse piss.

[EvilDragon]

I think he meant NI Monark

Ohhhhhhh. That's what I get for half-reading the thread. Sorry EvilDragon, my bad. I haven't played with Monark yet, so I can't judge.

-Sam

Apology accepted. Yes, I meant Monark.

[Sound Mechanics]

Still can't get a softsynth to match the analog character of my DSI Mopho. Even the best software synths although sounding greta in themselves seem to lack a grungyness - the hardware cuts through in a different pleasing way.

Oddity, OP-X and a few others are close and indistinguishable from hardware within certain parameter ranges, but Reaktor Monark, Tal-Uno-LX, DIVA, and TAL Bassline-101 are already 100% there.

I like all the soft synths you mention above but it's not necessarily about the sound as OP-X can sound identical, with some of the classic riff comparisons on their site. It's to do with the presence of the dry sound. When I try and match a saw tooth, filter wide, no res, the hardware seems to be more upfront and bigger at the same volume. If I then add some software tape delay with identical parameters the soft synth delays get lost where the hardware stands out more. I mean, the sound is being produced in different ways when comparing software to hardware, so it will be different.

I'm no technical expert but after years of enjoying software & hardware I still can't match the character of the cutting highs and low end presence - it's difficult to put into words unless you listen to both in front of you.

That saying, it's about writing good music, and I made the original post to celebrate the Pro52/53 quality and the great cover song in question.

[ccDuckett]

Just curious as to the NI/Arturia Prophet emulation users' opinion (since I'm
not one of them and can't directly compare) how does Roberson Audio's Prophanity
stack up? I have to think a man willing to put so much time, detail,and effort
into an engine simulator wouldn't do a horrible job, even if it is older
freeware..

[bmanic]

Still can't get a softsynth to match the analog character of my DSI Mopho. Even the best software synths although sounding greta in themselves seem to lack a grungyness - the hardware cuts through in a different pleasing way.

Oddity, OP-X and a few others are close and indistinguishable from hardware within certain parameter ranges, but Reaktor Monark, Tal-Uno-LX, DIVA, and TAL Bassline-101 are already 100% there.

Your 100% is not every man's 100%. It all depends on how picky you get. Just listen to the Tal-Uno-LX a/b shootout files. Yeah, the "signature" is there but it's definitely failing at duplicating the hardware. Tonality is off, envelope is off and filter is off. So that's hardly 100%.

Not saying that it sounds bad (it doesn't) but there's no such thing as 100% emulation in digital.. and never will be, depending on how picky you get. Of course at some point in the not too distant future it will be impossible for even the most seasoned professional to tell the difference. We are NOT there yet though.

Cheers!
bManic

[Ingonator]

Just curious as to the NI/Arturia Prophet emulation users' opinion (since I'm
not one of them and can't directly compare) how does Roberson Audio's Prophanity
stack up? I have to think a man willing to put so much time, detail,and effort
into an engine simulator wouldn't do a horrible job, even if it is older
freeware..

Before comparing Prophanity there are some obvious differences:

- Opposing to Pro-53 Prohanity and Arturia Prophet are still available and updated
- Prophanity is SynthEdit made so no Mac and also no 64-bit version
- Arturia Prophet includes two other synth (Prophet VS + hybrid mode)
- Arturia Prophet could import Sysex files of the Prophet 5 and Prophet VS
- Arturia Prophet includes a huge amount of presets (including free banks that were published at the Arturia website) while the older versions f Prophanity include around 16 in a single bank.

I had purchased Arturia Prophet V at v1.0 and IMO also the sound has been improved until the latest version v2.5.3 even if it was not explicitly mentioned.

Just had another look at the website of Prophanity:
http://robersonaudio.tk/prophanity/

In the latest version the Unison mode seems to be broken.
Due to that i just downloaded v1.4 instead of the latest one and will try to compare to Arturia Prophet ASAP.

BTW as already mentioned in my last posts there are some Reaktor ensembles of the Prophet 5 too.

UPDATE:
After a first test i found that Prophanity sounds quite nice. A direct comparison to Arturia Prophet seems to be difficult. Both the envelopes and the filter (especially the resonance) seem to behave quite differently.
In Prophanity the Resonance value has to be turned up quite high to really recognize it and at a Cutoff amount beyond the middle position it starts to disappear.
Maybe at the latest version (with the broken Unison) this is different.

I never played a real Prophet 5 so maybe this behavior is correct.
anyway usually with a real analog synth the Resonance should not disappear when the Cutoff is cranked up, especially not if the Cutoff is far from the maximum amount and the filter envelope amount is in middle position.

Like for man other synths audio demos of the real thing are available here:
http://www.synthmania.com/Prophet-5%20(Rev.3).htm

Arturia Prophet includes those presets and you could also load the Sysex file. To me those sound are quite close (and in some cases spot on) to those audio demos (at least those i have compared so far). I admit that the emulation does miss the low end of the real thing in some cases but that problem is quite common with many emulations. with a decent EQ plugin this problem could be minimized in several cases. Recently i purchases PSP NobleQ for such situations.

UPDATE:
I just tested Self-oscillations (with oscillators turned off) at Arturia Prophet V and Prophanity. While Arturia Prophet seems to do Self-scillation quite nicely (produces a Sine sound) Prophanity just stays quiet when the oscillators are turned off.


Ingo

[MetroSonus]

Still can't get a softsynth to match the analog character of my DSI Mopho. Even the best software synths although sounding greta in themselves seem to lack a grungyness - the hardware cuts through in a different pleasing way.

Oddity, OP-X and a few others are close and indistinguishable from hardware within certain parameter ranges, but Reaktor Monark, Tal-Uno-LX, DIVA, and TAL Bassline-101 are already 100% there.

I like all the soft synths you mention above but it's not necessarily about the sound as OP-X can sound identical, with some of the classic riff comparisons on their site. It's to do with the presence of the dry sound. When I try and match a saw tooth, filter wide, no res, the hardware seems to be more upfront and bigger at the same volume. If I then add some software tape delay with identical parameters the soft synth delays get lost where the hardware stands out more. I mean, the sound is being produced in different ways when comparing software to hardware, so it will be different.

I'm no technical expert but after years of enjoying software & hardware I still can't match the character of the cutting highs and low end presence - it's difficult to put into words unless you listen to both in front of you.

That saying, it's about writing good music, and I made the original post to celebrate the Pro52/53 quality and the great cover song in question.

I agree that in the raw, none of the vsts ive used compare at all to hardware. If your music focuses more on raw synth sound, i dont think theyll cut it.

But then again, you could be writing more of a "typical" song or style in which i think they'd be indistinguishable from the real thing.

You have to remember that most people that used these things used them when they were new and they also didnt tend to push them to extremes like we do with electronic and experimental styles.

[Kickflip]

Another thing to consider is that on the original synth vs soft synth comparisons, the original synth has had to be recorded in through converters, and that both recordings are likely compressed in order to make them stream easier on the website. Both these processes will probably mask some of the more subtle differences!