FREE: Alexis D-Four ... 90s drum sounds

[chokehold]

EDIT: Darn "number of posts per page".
Here's the important stuff:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 65#5400965
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I just wanted to add -- no harsh feelings from my side towards Alesis, it is their right to claim what they did.

Though "it's a pity" considering the time and work I invested, there's actually nothing I can -or should- loathe them for in this case, so none of us should do.

I wish Alesis all the best, and though I do not consider us 'enemies' I still feel free to continue disliking most their products in general.

This decision of theirs has had and will have no effect on my already pre-existing opinion of Alesis, which is and always has been a general disregard for the quality and performance of the major part of their current line of audio products, except the Trigger I/O which I will continue to contentedly use until the end of days - or until it breaks. Again.

For the sake of fairness and appropriateness (is that even a word?), I encourage those who have already downloaded the Alexis D-Four instruments to delete their duplications of those files.

[Tricky-Loops]

That's exactly the reaction from Alesis that I've expected...and I'm happy to see it already on page 13...

I can understand that you're angry because you made your library for nothing but think about this:

Imagine you have a 25 years old book with photos. Now you think: "It's such an old book, why should I care about it? I'll copy the photos and distribute them for free." Which is a LOT of work to copy all pages in color and tie up everything.

But no matter how much work it would be, it'll still be illegal and against copyright laws.

You cannot expect that the publisher of the book were happy just because people finally look at the old photos again. He will say that it isn't allowed because he want to re-edit the book and sell it, and he may use the photos even for other books.

(In the same sense Alesis can use their old samples for other new drum sampler in the future or/and rework their old drum samplers.)

[chokehold]

I can understand that you're angry

You seem to have missed the part where I said I'm not angry and I understand them.
So no use for redundant and not very analog (pardon the pun) explanations.

[thisplace]

I still think you should let alesis know there are people (including d4 owners) that would love a plugin alternative. Since you already created such a device, why not see if they would distribute it.

[bftucker]

Wiser minds have prevailed. Ad4-instuments and Ad4-win-vst64 are deleted. If I really need Alexis D-Four sounds...there is always Craigslist and the pawn shops. But let me know if Alexis says, "Go Ahead."

OK. Now I have emptied the recycle bin. Thanks to all in this thread who civilly or even semi-civilly contributed to the discussion, especially the OP.

[ghettosynth]

Wow, that was fast... Unexpected Thank You to Alesis.

So first, props to you for actually following through. Having owned the SR-16 several times and having used the D4, I understand the appreciation of the samples, they work quite well. At the very least, if more people took the time to ask, perhaps manufacturers may consider this as an indication of demand and consider producing products that people want. In this case, I'm quite sure that there's some demand for a VST D4.

In any case, my original message wasn't meant to instigate a shitstorm so much as it was to give you information that I suspected that you hadn't considered. The fact that you not only considered it, followed through with an email, shared the response, and made the decision to withdraw your product, speaks volumes about your character. Respect.

Thanks for your thorough request. While we can appreciate your thinking regarding the current status of the D4, unfortunately, we cannot approve your request.

As TrickyLoops states, this is completely unsurprising.

You are free to use the D4 sounds in a commercially released recording project.

Note here that he does not say simply the D4, rather "the D4 sounds." This supports my contention that manufacturers are not interested in wasting their time chasing people using the sounds in the way that there were intended to be used, even if the sounds were obtained through means other than simply owning the instrument. The risk is too high for them and the gains too low.

The irony here is that it's not that different, in practice, from decriminalization of possession laws. You can't buy it, nor can you sell it, but if you have it, even though you're not supposed to, you can probably use it without much concern.

The answer he sent (see top quote) gives me consent to use the sounds I recorded from the D4 to render "clients' and friends'" MIDI tracks to audio for personal or commercial further use, as long as they aren't one-shots.
Let's see what good can come from that.

They are nice samples!

[HenriAugusto]

At least since you own the D-4 you can keep the plug-in to yourself and rent the machine. It wasn't all lost in the end.

Thank you anyway for your efforts!

[Tricky-Loops]

Nevertheless he can use the recorded samples for music projects, even commercial projects (that's what a drum sampler is intended to be, otherwise nobody would use it). So it wasn't completely for nothing.

(And he still can use them for learning to make Kontakt libraries as long as he doesn't distribute them.)

It's only that he's not allowed to distribute the individual samples. If he makes loads of complex drum loops with them (in combination with other samples), it's a composition and he can distribute/sell them...

[hollowsun]

For the sake of fairness and appropriateness (is that even a word?), I encourage those who have already downloaded the Alexis D-Four instruments to delete their duplications of those files.

I don't think there's any need for that. You have done the right thing, asked permission and been - unfortunately - declined. Basically, you have a 'cease and desist' order ... which is the usual solution to these kind of situations. Manufacturers and IP holders don't want protracted court cases - that would be silly ... they would just prefer if you didn't abuse their IP. And I should know - had a few myself which is why I got myself clued up on it as best I could and took advice.

I don't want to drag this out any longer than is necessary but...

Triggering and recording the samples in a drum machine does NOT give access to the unfalsified original samples. Because once the samples have been read from the EEPROMS, they are from then on constantly being falsified and modified by being sent through a Digital-to-Analog converter, the circuitry of the machine itself and any other connected cabling or device after it.

And it's often/invariably THAT which gives an instrument its 'sound'. Yes, not a bit-by-bit clone but sampling the instrument captures the 'character' of the instrument. For example, why is the Akai S900 still popular? For its slightly grunky 12-bit sound (which, in reality is probably 9- or 10-bit because of the DAC technology at the time). And so it is with the D4 - it would have been the DACs that imparted that 90s sound on the samples, however crystal clear the original samples might have been (and having been through their library during my time with them, probably not that crystal clear!! )

Now, if (unlikely) Alesis asked me to do a D4/5 kit for their (though I say so myself!) excellent DM10, I wouldn't trawl through their library, I'd ask for an old D4 and D5 to re-sample to capture 'the sound', warts and all, because that's what defined the the modules, not the actual noughts and ones of the original samples.

Anyway, I am genuinely sorry that this little project didn't work out for you but you did the right thing. It's a bastard, isn't it?


Stephen

[ghettosynth]

Triggering and recording the samples in a drum machine does NOT give access to the unfalsified original samples. Because once the samples have been read from the EEPROMS, they are from then on constantly being falsified and modified by being sent through a Digital-to-Analog converter, the circuitry of the machine itself and any other connected cabling or device after it.

And it's often/invariably THAT which gives an instrument its 'sound'. Yes, not a bit-by-bit clone but sampling the instrument captures the 'character' of the instrument.

But, to be clear, that, in fact, is not protected by copyright. It is ONLY the recording that is protected and any recording of the output of the machine is protected ONLY BECAUSE it uses the recordings inside the machine. I know that you know this Stephen, I just don't want people to feel inhibited about things that they can do. For example, if you could put your own drum samples inside the D4 and then sample the output of those drums being processed by the character building D4 engine, there is nothing that Alesis could say about you selling those samples.

Which is, of course, why anyone can sell Samples played on the Akai S900 so long as they aren't using anyone else's original sample sources without permission.

In fact, an interesting side note related to this project, the sample of noise on the OP's site is NOT protected IP for Alesis, but, of course, it is for the OP.

[HenriAugusto]

Maybe if we create a petition and gather a lot of signatures they would change their mind hahah

just kidding, but it would be very nice

[chokehold]

As I may use the D4's sounds for projects but may not distribute the samples on their own, that means it would be legitimate to upload the samples I recorded onto my webserver, and make a sort-of "upload your MIDI, download your audio" rendering site, correct?

Already deep into 4D546864 00000006 -ing.

[HenriAugusto]

Considering it is a service i guess it's correct. But wouldn't it need some sort of anti-one-shot-samples detection?

But to be honest, that would be awesome!

[Tricky-Loops]

If the drum loops were only made with the Alesis samples, I guess it could be seen as illegal, too, because you could simply cut them and use them individually.

Therefore you would have to use other samples, too, to call it "musical composition"...

[HenriAugusto]

That's why i said "But wouldn't it need some sort of anti-one-shot-samples detection? "

But i just realized that this detection would have to be VERY smart. Otherwise it would very limiting, considering you wouldn't be able to write some very simple (and common) drum patterns like this one