A-Z of Rhythm -For Beginers

[deastman]

Well, I think we can say and agree with certainty that the "bow-chikka-wow-wow" rhythm is one commonly associated with pornography and it serves to underscore the loose but existentially taut rhythm of sexual intercourse.

+1

I always thought rhythm was an ineffective method of birth control...

[dalor]

+1

Check this out for Rhythm Programming:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb98/a ... rythm.html
Michael Miller - The Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Composition


Some notes I've taken so far...

Rhythm is basically what controls the pace of the music, the heartbeat. But Rhythms are multidimensional... I say you experiment with the different combinations.

1st Dimension -- Placement of Notes. More notes in a phrase, versus less notes.

2nd Dimension -- Length of Notes. Shorter vs Longer notes.

3rd Dimension -- Multiple Rhythms, try same same and opposite rhythms.

I won't write further into this, but you should experiment.

Did you come up with this? Because I like the concept of dimension in rhythm. Kinda inspiring

[jancivil]

as far as 'this is a place for sharing', the music theory board has seen a terrific amount of *sharing*. I think occasionally someone actually gains something from it, but more typically there have been the usual suspects that ask the same question again and again for years in different forms (or so they must believe), despite all the energetic typing at them. Some of it pretty cogent and systematic and thorough. A lot of it, on the other hand is half-baked if not ignorant. It's not a cogent class or curriculum here by any means. It isn't an efficient or time-saving approach in the long run, of that I have no doubt.

The internet has encouraged millions of people to think they can read about things and watch 'tips and tricks' in place of their own experience. I don't think enabling this amazing, gobsmacking laziness is that helpful. Until relatively recently there were indeed people on here that were motivated to transcribe things kind of fully that didn't help the person get any sense of how to do that on their own. One can with a little mindfulness get a sense of the sincerity of someone asking to have the content of something shown to them. It's actually the exception, not the rule on this board however. OPs such as this are pretty transparent; I suppose one thinks they framed it sufficiently so it isn't...

There is a whole groupthink that has grown here over the years, a sense of forced equality, a type of faux communism, where if one brings a certain reality such as happened here - you can't reasonably expect to get for free on the internet, through no substantial expenditure of energy or time, or pocketbook, what people who cared more went to some lengths to obtain - brings this accusation of being an horrible elitist arrogant person.
It's one thing to expect strangers to perform extensive work for you for nothing but it's a little excessive to bash people just for disagreeing that they should.

[jancivil]

I believe the very first thing to do is get physically involved with rhythm, bang on tables or your car's dashboard, slap your thigh and stomp your feet, emulating drummers.

you can't replace involvement with instruments with some talk/some reading; people can convince themselves of all kinds of things, though.

[The_Hidden_Goose]

Honey, I got riddim I just ain't yoozed yit!

I agree with all the above, even the contradictory bits.

Drum things physically. Drum things in your head. Drum with your computer. Drum, drum, drum until you're dead!

[JumpingJackFlash]

Although I wouldn't phrase it quite as harshly, I largely agree with KBSoundSmith.

It's not about money though. I have absolutely no problem with teaching anyone who genuinely wants to learn - but that includes the willingness to work hard, study, practice, and so on.

I have no time for people who just want a quick fix. People who don't really care why something works the way it does, they just want to know what buttons to press to make their "music" sound amazing. People who leech off of the experience of others and can't be bothered to do any work for themselves. In short, people who want all the rewards for none of the effort.

In the long run, this approach isn't actually good for the person anyway, so we're actually doing them a favour by making them work it out for themselves. You see it all the time on here; someone who's skim-read a couple of Wikipedia articles and suddenly thinks they're an expert on all things music. - It doesn't work that way. Jumping to the end and bypassing all the years of hard work will ultimately just confuse you more. Like building a house on no foundations; it's doomed to fall sooner or later.

[The_Hidden_Goose]

I kind of agree, but I think the point of this thread wasn't necessarily to leech from experience as such. More for folks to discuss how & what they do or don't do with regards to rhythm.

If we're going to close that discussion down every time, then there really isn't much point to this forum beyond product marketing/discussion and support. And while that wouldn't be useless, I think it would be a little sad.

Having a discussion, and even in most cases (imo) getting tips and tricks from experienced folks isn't going to replace in-depth courses or tutelage but neither will it harm them.

Essentially - I think, like with most things KVR it seems, we're blowing this up out of all proportion.

Having said that, I don't think KBSoundSmith said anything harsh. There's nothing objectionable or personally insulting in anything they said as far as I can see. And their own idea of advice was offered. Fairymuff!

[The_Hidden_Goose]

Not that I've got much to offer...I can't drum for sausages and my beat programming is...well...basic! Thankfully, I don't use beats much, and they're decidedly motorik these days when I do (read...simple & repetapetapetative).

There's plenty of rhythm in my synth usage, in terms of arpeggiation and berling-school style sequencing. I find that using arpeggiators makes things sound a bit stuck in a rut, and hard to get them making more creative or original (to my ears) peices, so my inclination is to program them manually in sequencer patterns and parts. Can be useful to get a quick glimpse or basic sketch down though, so I do have one or two.

I have some plans for for drum programming in a couple of tracks though soon, as I intend to get some usage out of xoxos glitchery drum doodad Adze (which is worth having a peak at iof you want some interesting spectral drum sample munging).

[Hink]

"Rhythm generally means a "movement marked by the regulated succession of strong and weak elements, or of opposite or different conditions."[2] This general meaning of regular recurrence or pattern in time can apply to a wide variety of cyclical natural phenomena having a periodicity or frequency of anything from microseconds to millions of years."(source :Wikipedia)

Hi guys ,

Wanted to create a thread only for Rhythm and Rhythm related questions . This thread will be for people who are beginers just like me and want to learn more about the theory behind rhythm of a track . Someone please start off by throwing light on this and detailed analysis of rhythm in a track .


Thanks

Not to burst your bubble, but information/experience/service of the type for which you are asking, I charge (as should any trained musician with an ounce of self-respect and professional pride).

I understand Internet culture encourages "get everything for free" thinking,

okay, that's enough for me...the best teacher teaches the student to learn on their own...but someone who's in it for the money is not worth a penny....they'll just keep dangling that carrot in front of the student....sounds like sour grapes to me because the internet is hurting your business...not to burst your bubble but that is what this forum is for. Not a place to pedal your teaching skills, not a place to say "look at me I'm better and smarter than you" it's a place for people to SHARE and learn...maybe you're in the wrong place

I apologize to the OP for the amount of arrogance you need to go through for your answers, I hope you find them...

Here's a long post, necessitated by my broken bullshit meter. For those of you want to skip me dealing with Hink and are interested in only some general, but good musical advice, skip to the numbered items at the bottom.

----------------------------------

I agree with you that someone who is in it only for the money isn't worth having as a teacher. This is why there were some teachers I stopped seeing. But there others who I sought, and continue working with as a student myself, because their insight is worth the investment. Seeking the advice of people more knowledgeable and experienced is one of the most important means of improvement--they will see things about you that you don't see, or are sometimes unwilling to see, and they can help you by nudging you in subtle directions. A good teacher will speed up the learning process by understanding what makes you tick and then either feeding that, challenging it, or whatever else is needed to help you understand at a deeper level. And one lesson with a truly great musician will teach far more than a year of scouring the Internet for free "tips and tutorials" on forums and youtube.

Too many people think today that they can get on the Internet, find a youtube video, a forum post, or whatever other kind of "tutorial" posted by someone unknown and use that as a means to:
1) avoid investing in themselves, monetarily or otherwise (ie, falsely believing they can circumvent established educational means, formal or informal)
2) outsource thinking, instead hoping that someone will do the work for them--that they will magically find THE ANSWER that will save them from deep thinking.

People expect all the knowledge of the world to be handed to them on a golden platter, chewed, swallowed, digested, and defecated for them as well. Frankly, the only arrogance being displayed is by those who want something for nothing. Having someone else do an analysis for you accomplishes nothing for you; the person who did the analysis reaped the benefits.

And where in my post did I ever say, or even by the largest stretch of the imagination imply, that learning on one's own isn't valuable, or suggest that a teacher is an almighty fount of knowledge? A teacher can't do the work for the student. A teacher can't compose a student's music. A teacher can't think for the student. Only the student can do the hard work necessary for their own growth. But a teacher can help a student clarify what work they should be doing and give suggestions about how one might try to do it, and this changes from student to student based upon their individual aptitudes.

As for "pedaling my teaching skills", "sour grapes about the internet hurting your business" and other such bullshit that you puked out into the ether, you don't a know a damned thing about the nature of my work, whether I'm self-employed, work for a music store, public or private school, K-12 or university, online or in a brick-and-mortar location--frankly, it seems to me that the only one to whom "sour grapes" likely applies is you, since you seem to so vehemently rail against someone espousing some level of belief in a formal education.

And there would be little point in "pedaling my teaching skills" to an internet forum. Even if my teaching is or should become the greatest in the world, and if every word I uttered or wrote were to be as valuable as gold, it would all be wasted on internet forums. People at forums have a tendency to work against their own interests, ironically enough (countermanding your charge against me, that I don't understand this place is about "sharing)--they pat each other on the back, encouraging each others' mediocrity, laziness, "expression," or other such vacuous bullshit, and when someone comes along and actually gives them good advice, they ignore it, criticize it, rail against it, take offense to it, etc. It's bewildering, and only frustrates those who have something to offer.

So to the OP or anyone who may be serious about trying to really understand musical ideas,I offer several suggestions to you:

1.) buy a book on music theory, and some books on rhythm, both theoretical and practical. If you want some reading suggestions, PM me. I guarantee you, searching for information by starting a forum topic is a waste of your time, and you will learn more, learn faster, and feel more fulfillment in what you learn if you don't beat around the bush and instead engage yourself with really solid material rather than the spotty, piece-meal non-sense you'll usually receive in a place like this. Upfront, buying the books will be more expensive than browsing online, but you will save significant amounts of time (likely years)by heeding my suggestion.

2.) Work through those books, and do so slowly. For each concept you come across, write a short section of music to ensure that the concept is being assimilated into your set of skills, rather than merely being "knowledge". The only real knowledge you will have is what you can apply--reading does not make you good at writing.

3.) When you learn a new concept and have tried writing with it, then listen to a lot of music, try to identify those concepts, see how they are used similarly/differently from what you attempted. Listen to multiple genres of music, classical, jazz, hip-hop, electronic, etc, because you'll have something to learn from each, and they will all use those concepts in different ways/at different levels of complexity.

4.) Go back to the concepts you have already learned; ie, after step 3, go back to step 2, rinse and repeat. Learning music is an iterative process.

5.) Learn to play an instrument, or at the very least, find some manner of physically manifesting the music--physically internalizing musical concepts is of the utmost importance, whether or not you ever plan on publicly performing.

6.) Find a teacher who you trust and can develop/have a rapport with. The benefits will be manifold.

7.) Establish a circle of people who you trust (and who ideally are better than you) to give you honest criticism. If what you wrote sucks, they should tell you that. But also make sure that they are friendly and supportive--you don't need to receive negative criticism; criticism properly understood should be about exposing your weaknesses and giving advice to help you address and overcome them.

8.) Write every day. It's better to spend five minutes writing a short melodic fragment or rhythmic motif than to spend any amount of time searching online for information at a forum. You WILL learn more, and the results will be a product of your own struggles and deepening critical thought.

9.) Write every day (no, the repetition wasn't an error). Choose a concept to emphasize, reflect on it, and write. Limit the number of concepts you work on at a time--it is better to spend a week on one concept rather than tackle three, four, ten, etc concepts in an hour. Be patient--musical understanding can't be rushed.

10.) Ignore Hink--I'm not saying that to spite him (her?) either. To your benefit, I called out bullshit, whether or not he/she can recognize it.

11.) Last, and Most Important: enjoy yourself. If you aren't trying to be a professional, that's fine--do what is fun. Depending upon how quickly/how in depth you want to learn, you can follow my advice to varying degrees of intensity. You don't have to have a Doctoral level of understanding to enjoy music--but the more you understand, the more you will enjoy.

so are you assuming I do of those are things? But that's right...ignore someone you do not know a thing about...I actually read this forum a lot but do not post often because I have no need, it's a resource for me but only one resource for me. I do learn a lot here but the egos are a problem and IT HURTS THE FORUM...look at how the rest of KvR looks at this forum...who is to blame for that...us who read the posts or those who post here frequently? I'm just saying...if it's getting a bad repo because of the fighting what good is this forum? Oh but I forgot, ignore me...

[Hink]

Although I wouldn't phrase it quite as harshly, I largely agree with KBSoundSmith.

It's not about money though. I have absolutely no problem with teaching anyone who genuinely wants to learn - but that includes the willingness to work hard, study, practice, and so on.

I have no time for people who just want a quick fix. People who don't really care why something works the way it does, they just want to know what buttons to press to make their "music" sound amazing. People who leech off of the experience of others and can't be bothered to do any work for themselves. In short, people who want all the rewards for none of the effort.

In the long run, this approach isn't actually good for the person anyway, so we're actually doing them a favour by making them work it out for themselves. You see it all the time on here; someone who's skim-read a couple of Wikipedia articles and suddenly thinks they're an expert on all things music. - It doesn't work that way. Jumping to the end and bypassing all the years of hard work will ultimately just confuse you more. Like building a house on no foundations; it's doomed to fall sooner or later.

I so agree with this, you want to teach people to learn...I started very young with music, I have the knowledge and resources to sort things out as you say and that is a good thing indeed.

Meanwhile once again I would like to post a story I have told often here because it fits so well...

In the 80s I worked for a moving company that was owned by two brothers...both "thugs" growing up in the 50's...one was the brawn, the other the brains. The brawn was indeed one of the most under educated people I have met in my years, I hate to say this about people but he just was not very smart at all. (dropped out of school in jr high) This guy gave me the best advice though, he said one key to life is you can learn something from everyone which is absolutely true and something I believe in 1000000000000000000000% Ironically he proved it by being the one to teach me that lesson, so he wasn't as stupid as I thought...in fact I was the stupid one because I laughed at him along with my coworkers all the time

Here though it seems many people who frequently post in this forum do not get this and instead of talking with people talk at them or down to them and that never does any good. Ignore me was said (not by you)...I'll read his free wisdom on theory all day, he can ignore me all he wants.

Thanx again JJF for your contribution, and yes there are no shortcuts if you want to learn it right

[Ogg Vorbis]

Kids these days... They just want to open up a free app on their iPhone and drop dope beatz. When I was young, if you wanted to be a musician you had to suck a long time trying to squeak out a tune on a violin or an oboe before you were considered legit.

It's strange that us traditionalist geezers hang out on KVR in the first place. Maybe that should be the slogan around here..."At KVR, old people stand on YOUR lawn."

[Hink]

Kids these days... They just want to open up a free app on their iPhone and drop dope beatz. When I was young, if you wanted to be a musician you had to suck a long time trying to squeak out a tune on a violin or an oboe before you were considered legit.

It's strange that us traditionalist geezers hang out on KVR in the first place. Maybe that should be the slogan around here..."At KVR, old people stand on YOUR lawn."

I dont think it's strange...I do chuckle to myself quite often when people are splitting hairs over pluggins, have to have all the pluggins and such but only because when us "geezers" started if we wanted to write music it meant using notation and you needed a lot more knowledge just to write. It is true that today you can patch together a bunch of loops made by other people and call yourself a producer or a composer but I have got myself use to that and just look past it.

One thing being a geezer helps with is I can see that those who really have a passion will get bored with just loops and seek more knowledge (hence why this forum is important). While others it will be just a passing fad in their own lives, that's life and it applies to pretty much everything in life...we all have to find our niche. The most important part of that for me is to not get too caught up in that and not to judge, what music means to e is not what it means to others...judgment is counterproductive for my growth.

People change over the course of their lives and their lives has no impact on me. Some people will get mad because they devote so much of their life to their passion and someone hits a grandslam at their one time at bat and that brings in the hate, the anger, the jealousy and the truth is their success or lack there of has nothing to do with me. I also have seen (like yourself I'm sure) that those who "made it" did not always have a life of beer and skittles...again though, that is true in life in general. What we see on the surface of people is rarely much of the whole picture so at the end of the day if someone is satisfied with using techniques I dont agree with the truth is I would not be and that is all that matters to me...taking pride in my work and not judging the work of others because it's not my place imho.

[ras.s]

Well, here comes my contribution to this thread, a little bit of reggae education. I'm no professor but a dub mystic, feel free to correct me.



In reggae music, every instrument plays the rhythm. That is, if the drummer doesn't play a certain hit (a hit the listener might expect), another player can fill in. Or the drummer can play 'the skank' (the chuck of the guitar or the bubble of the organ) with the high hat, snare or the tom toms -- or the cowbell. Orchestration wise, the rhythm section consists of a drummer, bass player and percussionist (or two). The guitarist, piano player and organist pretty much all do the same thing of filling in on the two and the four, while the horn section sugar up the cake with the harmony singers.


The most fundamental reggae beat is the one called 'one drop', which is characterized by the snare and the kick coming on the third of the beat.




It's common for the drummer to have a syncopated groove or little fills with the rimshot.




The beat called 'steppers' (some man might call it rockers) is a one where the drummer hits the kick all the time, that is, four to the floor. Here's an example with the drummer doubling a skank on the toms while playing steppers.




High hat grooves are essential to add to the feel of the tune, here's a steppers beat with a chase feel.




In reggae music, triplets are your friend. I find them especially interesting when played on the high hat. Here's a kick drum on the first of the beat -- there's no rule that you shouldn't do it.




Varying with looseness of the hat gives a distinct groove. It can easily go to 'ska' territory.







The high hat is played mostly so that it's pressed down tight. On the snare, there's also a hit one man called 'the cow strike', that's when you hit the center of the drum with the tip of the stick and about from mid-way of the stick, you hit the rim. The snare of the snare drum can also be triggered off, to make the drum sound more like a high pitched tom, similar to timbale. That's especially good when the drop of the beat (that's the third) is played with a rimshot/sidestick sound. Synare (and similar sounds) are also common piece of kit.

Dynamics are most crucial too - not just the velocity of the hits, but to be aware of the full range of sounds coming from the different pieces of the kit. The high hat is actually far more than 'hihat 1', 'pedal hihat' and 'open hihat'. Same thing with the snare and other cymbals.

Now reggae music obviously isn't as simple as this. For the drummer, there's also ska, rocksteady, 80's dancehall and modern dancehall.


One drop (with a twist, the rimshot's cool)


Old style stepping


UK steppers


Dancehall 2013




Anyone care to elaborate on the varieties of metal music ?

[Nielzie]

Anyone care to elaborate on the varieties of metal music ?

Not per se metal music, but I like listen to rock music with unconventional time signatures a lot, especially the drum playing.

[Tricky-Loops]

Well, here comes my contribution to this thread, a little bit of reggae education. I'm no professor but a dub mystic, feel free to correct me.

Are there some tutorials about the rhythmic piano/keyboard chords that are used in Reggae (and in which key they are)? And what synthesizer would you recommend for them?