One-Synth-Challenge 54: XILS 3 Beat Edition - Gossip

[ENV1]

Thats weird, because amore than 1000 people already got the Xils BE before this contest, and none has reported such things.

That says absolutely nothing. Just recently i found a serious bug in DUNE which nobody had noticed in years even though quite a few well known preset designers have made presets for it. (Truth is i run into that kind of stuff all the time with all sorts of plugins. I just dont have the time to report it all because at the very least i would have to demonstrate the issue.)

But anyway, yeah, i will post what ive got if its alright to do so here. Going to XILS would mean creating another account and i really dont feel like doing that. If its too far off topic in here then maybe i create a thread in the Instruments forum.



PS: Of course i know what a Trapezoid is. Youll see what i mean by wonky when i posted the audio demo.

[ENV1]

If you want to check it out; i have attached a bank with a few presets i saved during testing, the Kick is in there too. Import via X3s Import Bank function.

I thought you can't save patches in the VSTi itself nor import patch banks into Xils BE. Are you using the full version?

Nope, just BE.

Bank Import/Export is working fine here.


PS: Thanks for the link to the manual. Might come in handy.

[Lotuzia]

Thats weird, because amore than 1000 people already got the Xils BE before this contest, and none has reported such things.

That says absolutely nothing. Just recently i found a serious bug in DUNE which nobody had noticed in years even though quite a few well known preset designers have made presets for it. (Truth is i run into that kind of stuff all the time with all sorts of plugins. I just dont have the time to report it all because at the very least i would have to demonstrate the issue.)

But anyway, yeah, i will post what ive got if its alright to do so here. Going to XILS would mean creating another account and i really dont feel like doing that. If its too far off topic in here then maybe i create a thread in the Instruments forum.



PS: Of course i know what a Trapezoid is. Youll see what i mean by wonky when i posted the audio demo.

No need to create ab account actually, just use the contact utility found on Xils site, then include links to your files or attach the files.

Well, I've found thousands of bugs in Vstis from various companies over years, so I certainly would not pretend that any software is bug free, even those with several years and very active debugging behind them. then on the xils3, as connections possibilities are endless, sometimes weird things happen, like modulating something mono with something stereo or vice versa, but well its a research synthesizer as well, though it can do bread and butter. So that I'm eager to believe some possibilities are there. But here the words one's write with have also their importance : Bugs, or weird things, maybe, several HUGE bugs that thousands of people would have missed, like you wrote, the probablity is imho very weak, unless there's something weird in this particular build, or on your system. Anyway, what some people see as huge, some other see as less huge, sometimes also as tiny. Or very tiny.

Anyway, big thanks nevertheless for taking the care to play with the Xils3, explore it in its depths, and reporting directly to Xils. I hope you're having fun with the Xils 3. Its one of my favorite machines when I want something else than a basic, or even not so basic, VA.

Iirc yes patch export/import should work on the BE version.

[nitrowheels]

Iirc yes patch export/import should work on the BE version.

Hi, just to confirm like ENV1 and like Lotuzia that import/export is working (XILS 3 BE; Win8 64 bits and XP SP3; Ableton Live 8.4.1 and Zynewave Podium Free 2.42).


-Enrico

[ENV1]

several HUGE bugs that thousands of people would have missed, like you wrote,

I never wrote that. Nor does the word huge even occur in any of my last 3 posts.


At any rate, since the trouble is already starting, despite the fact that i havent even posted a single bit of documentation yet, i think the smart thing to do is probably to just forget the whole thing and go about my business. Demonstrating issues with audio plugins in-depth is a very boring and timeconsuming task, (textual documentation, screenshots, audio demos, etc.), and i really dont feel like going to all this trouble only to end up entangled in another internet drama due to the constantly defensive attitude of the people that im talking to.

[Lotuzia]

At any rate, since the trouble is already starting, despite the fact that i havent even posted a single bit of documentation yet, ..............

.....; and i really dont feel like going to all this trouble only to end up entangled in another internet drama due to the constantly defensive attitude of the people that im talking to.

Actually, no other internet drama than the one you initiated by writing things like this:

...... (Voice handler is buggy, preset manager is a mess, envelope is wonky, etc.) ......

......... Obviously all that stripping down to the bare essentials didnt do the synth any good. On the contrary, almost all 'obvious' ways lead into a problem or other because of some issue that exists with what little is still there....

If you don't then understand people could get "defensive", as you say, then you don't.

I invited you to send to Xils-Lab any data that you have that would demonstrate some eventual bugs such as the ones you talk about. Xils has a good reputation for quickly fixing bugs, and to be listening in depth to users feedback. I don't know how I could do more than that. If bugs there are, they will be fixed asap. If they are no such things, well, just another false alert on the internet.

I'm not sure you realize the implicit violence of the words you use sometimes, so I will not comment all this any more. Its a free forum, and everybody can express himself in it the way he wants. Send us data, dont send us data, do what you feel is the best for you. From my side I tried to answer in the best way I could, staying very open to all possibilities.Ymmv.

LtZ

[Lotuzia]

As the preset manager system was discussed a few posts ago, I think it might help people participating into this contest to watch this video that showcases Xils-Lab preset management system. It's about Oxium, but you'll find strictly identical features on the Xils 3 ( I did not check thoroughly the BE version, but it should be very similar in most functions as well )



I think that Xils preset system is the most powerfull with NI engine, when dealing with content management. Then, I'm biased

Anyway I hope this video will help those who dont like manuals, and want to have a broader approch of the preset system.

[ENV1]

Yeah, whatever.

Fact is that you didnt even wait until you had a chance to see for yourself that the points that i raised are documentable, you immediately gave me your standard 'thousands of people didnt notice it so it must be your imagination' routine, as if im some low IQ fool who brings up these things purely for entertainment purposes because he doesnt know what else to do with his time. Many have told you before that this comes across as extremely annoying to someone who is nice enough to offer his free time in an effort to help Xavier to make a better product, but you never listen, you keep pulling the same irritating people-alienating routine every time with no regards for the effect it will have and i for one wont go along with this. If my help is neither really wanted nor needed, fine, figure the issues our yourself or just leave them in forever, like the voice handler problem, which can be traced back as far as the earliest versions of Xaviers CS-80. (Thats what...10 years?) Im sure the customers will love it when they run into it for the first time, not understanding why their newly bought software synthesizer acts so strangely.

Thats all i have to say to this. And no, i dont give a sodding damn that you wrap the offputting bits in flowery words because they dont change anything about the core of what youre saying and how you come across.

[Lotuzia]

[IrionDaRonin]

Dudes, as i have read too many threads since years and more or less i know some relationships between certain forists and also i'm a very intuitive bitch, i'm starting to perceive strange behaviors that never happened in OSC before, a certain bad mood in the atmosphere, and people who never show its faces here in OSC coming in just because maybe, there is a Xils Lab synth or Lotuzia.
I just want to believe that i'm wrong about this and it is just a coincidence.
But in any case, please, let's calm down before things will get to worse.

This is OSC, and here, since always, we all have been good mates and friendly with others, so no chances to ruin an OSC, nor fights, hard old feelings or bad behaviors, please.
Whoever doesn't like Xils stuff, calm down inmediatelly or go out, you decide.

Whatever anyone has to say or raving to Lotuzia or Xils Lab -> Private messages, new threads or calling technical support for massive bugs would be ok. But not here.

However, it is ok to say that a bug is annoying, and people could get a possible quick solution here while Xils Labs guys take it in mind, as we always have done with any other developer.

I just hope OSC is not another chance to attack massively a synth that for any reason (that we don't give a shit) you don't like or you are not interested at all.
We are smart, and we notice this.

I won't tolerate hard feelings here in a place where we as participants and even as rivals to get the first place and best prize, over all that, we are friends and share the same tastes and hobbies as musicians.
Let's keep OSC a good place without bad feelings, please.

We all have more in common than differences, believe it or not.
So make the peace, there is enough war and shit all over the world.

First warning and i hope the last one, as i said 'please' three times.

If you think i'm wrong, feel free to scold me, i won't take it personally as i don't have enemies at KVR. In extreme case, i just will ignore it.

Have a nice day everyone.

Now, let's continue with OSC.

~ The Bad Cop.

[ENV1]

I'm starting to perceive strange behaviors that never happened in OSC before, a certain bad mood in the atmosphere, and people who never show its faces here in OSC coming in just because maybe, there is a Xils Lab synth or Lotuzia.

I resent this inference. My first post in this thread was in response to a members question because i thought i can help him with the answer, and in my second post, besides sharing presets, i asked whether or not this thread IS the right place to post about technical issues, precisely because i did not want to cause any undue disruption. The fact that Lotuzia came along 'commenting' on my question is entirely his responsibility so you will have to clear that with him. All that i wanted was an answer from whoever is running this thread so i know how to proceed with the matter, in other words if Lotuzia hadnt addressed me i never even would have spoken to him because my findings were obviously for Xavier to take note of, not him.

If you think i'm wrong, feel free to scold me, i won't take it personally as i don't have enemies at KVR.

Lets just say that you drew the wrong conclusions. I have posted many bug reports in the time that im here, i also gave a lot of beta and other product feedback, and to me this case was no different from all the others.



Just to clear that up.

Have a nice weekend too.

[e@rs]

I am currently trying to make a punchier sounding kick drum from the C.D. KickSoft patch. Generally I do have the attack I was looking for but the filter or whatever module is drifting in cycles obviously. I have absolutely no clue what causes this behavior and systematic debugging didn't lead to any change. I suspect it might be a combination of parameters causing this. If so then possibilities are increased to higher powers.

So if anyone has some idea or short-cut for me to find the culprit I would be very glad to read it here.

I spent about 1 hour with the kick preset and wasn't able to find what causes the drift. Could it be that the patch was made in one of the commercial versions of XILS 3 and the GUI of the BE version doesn't have the parameter that causes the behavior?

[Davias]

Isn't it because XILS has drift in its oscillators by default ?

I find the behavior of amplitude modulation weird too... Sound is always the same no matter how I change volumes of used oscillators. If I put an osc at 0 volume then there is no output, I would have expected to hear the other osc unchanged. And AM volume just change the volume of output, not the intensity of modulation. Maybe I'm missing something ?

[QuadrupleA]

@ENV1: From someone who just read the conversation - does seem like you're being a little unnecessarily cantankerous - not that you don't have valid points or have found valid problems, but at least be willing to share some details about the problems if you mention them, don't just say "this synth sucks, I can't be bothered to provide details", and try to go easy on people.

I have actually run into a few apparent bugs myself in exploring the synth - not sure if they're exclusive to the BE edition, haven't tried the full:

* Reverb modulation doesn't seem to work - sending any modulation source to the "REVERB" control channel doesn't affect the reverb's dry/wet mix - I've tried routing velocity, mod wheel, oscillator, keyboard follow, etc. to it. Would be nice to have this as it'd allow for some interesting physical simulation patches.

* Velocity mod seems to be way over-smoothed - e.g., modulating an OUT LVL 1 or 2 with velocity results in a slowly rising or falling output level. If I hit notes repeatedly very lightly, the volume will slowly decrease over many notes, and if I hit notes very hard, the volume will slowly rise, as though it were a moving average with a 5-second window or so. Seems to happen with any modulation target (have tried decay, OSC freq., etc.)

* Meter doesn't respond correctly to any inputs I've tried - update rate is very slow, maybe 1/4 second (should ideally be 30 or 60 frames per second to be useful) and doesn't seem to improve with the update frequency setting in the options menu - and the values that do show seem random / unrelated to the input.

* Not a bug, but a UI suggestion (from a guy who programs a lot of UIs ) - the mod matrix LEDs are very small to start with, and their click-target appears to be actually smaller than the grid space it's on, and above and to the left of the LED image. Would be great to click anywhere in the grid cell. They also seem to suffer from the "slow framerate" effect of the meter, which can result in missed clicks, and a general sluggish feel (this includes the updates of the row/column highlight, which is a nice feature). Snappier input polling or update handling would add a lot to the "juiciness" of interacting with the synth.

* This may be an intentional limitation with the BE edition, but I could sure use me some more envelopes

For reference, I'm using FL studio 10.0.9 on a fast PC, using the 32-bit plugin. If you need any patch examples / details let me know.

[ENV1]

at least be willing to share some details about the problems if you mention them, don't just say "this synth sucks, I can't be bothered to provide details"

From someone who just read the conversation

You cant be serious.