What do you think about "Harmonic Mixing"?

[Tricky-Loops]

A few days ago I found something about "Harmonic Mixing". So I thought this must be something extraordinary which I've never seen before. But then I looked at this circle with the appealing name "Camelot System", and I was completely disappointed: It seems to be the Circle of Fifths, just a bit rotated...

What do you think about the "Harmonic Mixing"? Is there something special about it that I don't know?

Are there better methods and circles (instead of the Circle of Fifths) to create chord progressions (as the Circle of Fifths is rather about keys and less about chords).

[dusted william]

isn't is mostly about how djs mix from one song to another within the same key, or flow through the circle of 5ths?

dw

[quayquay17]

As dusted said, the camelot system helps DJ's mix between tracks with harmonically compatible keys.

Might be disappointing if you thought it was a whole new theory on a song's mix though!

[Tricky-Loops]

I'm just wondering why DJ's don't have 15 minutes time to learn the Circle of Fifths if they have 5 minutes time to learn the Camelot Circle which is basically the same...

I have expected an absolutely new outstanding approach...

[coquillo]

IIRC It's easier to sort by camelot numbers than Gb/Bm, C/Am etc.

[ghettosynth]

I'm just wondering why DJ's don't have 15 minutes time to learn the Circle of Fifths if they have 5 minutes time to learn the Camelot Circle which is basically the same...

I have expected an absolutely new outstanding approach...

Because there's nothing to learn with the Camelot system. It's just a label that links key to something that you already know, the hours on a clock. It eliminates the translation stage in that you don't have to think about what keys are adjacent in the circle of fifths. It simply becomes which numbers are adjacent on the clock. The only thing that's not obvious from the number itself is the adjacency of 12 o-clock to 1 o-clock. Major keys are linked to the relative minor keys by the same position on the clock, differing only by a letter. You now learn two simple rules, e.g. move numbers by 1 or stay on the same number and change the letter.

It's brilliant in its simplicity and only requires that you think about the actual key the song is in just once.

IIRC It's easier to sort by camelot numbers than Gb/Bm, C/Am etc.

Yep, or, more to the point, you can sort by either but a camelot number sorts tracks in the order that you want to play them. Your cataloging software doesn't need to know that the label is a "key" and have a special "circle of fifths" sort order.

[Tricky-Loops]

IIRC It's easier to sort by camelot numbers than Gb/Bm, C/Am etc.

Yep, or, more to the point, you can sort by either but a camelot number sorts tracks in the order that you want to play them. Your cataloging software doesn't need to know that the label is a "key" and have a special "circle of fifths" sort order.

So you can label the songs with the Camelot numbers (instead of the keys), and then the DJ (or cataloging) software simply chooses + 1 or - 1 or letter "A" or letter "B" to find a song that fits to the previous song...

That sounds interesting...OTOH if the computer does everything automatically (by using the "Mixed in Key" software additionally), then the DJ's won't learn any music theory...

[vurt]

do they need music theory if theyre not actually "making" music?

[ghettosynth]

IIRC It's easier to sort by camelot numbers than Gb/Bm, C/Am etc.

Yep, or, more to the point, you can sort by either but a camelot number sorts tracks in the order that you want to play them. Your cataloging software doesn't need to know that the label is a "key" and have a special "circle of fifths" sort order.

So you can label the songs with the Camelot numbers (instead of the keys), and then the DJ (or cataloging) software simply chooses + 1 or - 1 or letter "A" or letter "B" to find a song that fits to the previous song...

That sounds interesting...OTOH if the computer does everything automatically (by using the "Mixed in Key" software additionally), then the DJ's won't learn any music theory...

They won't learn much by giving them a difficult to use labeling system either. That's all the circle of fifths is, if, you don't learn what it's about. I know what the circle of fifths is, I know what a fifth is, good or bad, I write music, but, I still prefer the Camelot labels because they simply work better for the intended purpose.

The goal isn't really to teach DJs about music theory, the goal is to USE music theory to help DJs play better sets.

[Tricky-Loops]

do they need music theory if theyre not actually "making" music?

I suppose that many DJ's want to make their own music sooner or later, and if they already know some music theory it's easier for them than if the computer did everything for them in their life.

[vurt]

do they need music theory if theyre not actually "making" music?

I suppose that many DJ's want to make their own music sooner or later, and if they already know some music theory it's easier for them than if the computer did everything for them in their life.

when they decide they wish to make music, then they can learn it

[Tricky-Loops]

do they need music theory if theyre not actually "making" music?

I suppose that many DJ's want to make their own music sooner or later, and if they already know some music theory it's easier for them than if the computer did everything for them in their life.

when they decide they wish to make music, then they can learn it

But imagine a top DJ comes on stage, then he/she switches the laptop on with all this great DJ software and "Mixed in Key" and "Find Songs Automatically" and "Occasionally Scratch Program" and "DJ Effects Volume 599" and so on, presses a few keys, and everything plays automatically for hours so he/she can go home...

-- would you call this a DJ??

Then every construction worker can be a DJ without learning anything...

[quayquay17]

There aren't many quality mixing programs that automix in key, so don't complain about something that doesn't happen.

What DOES happen is that talented DJ's will write down the key or camelot designation for each track they think they might use, along with preparing the beatgrid, setting cuepoints, etc.

Once they are in a mix, they can scroll through their library and know immediately and precisely what songs will not only fit the tempo, but the key, and can select accordingly.

It can have pretty interesting results, I knew a dance DJ who played a lot of prime timeslots, he showed me how he would start at low bpm's and keys and mix harmonically upwards building musical excitement alongside the tempo.

[whyterabbyt]

But imagine a top DJ comes on stage, then he/she switches the laptop on with all this great DJ software and "Mixed in Key" and "Find Songs Automatically" and "Occasionally Scratch Program" and "DJ Effects Volume 599" and so on, presses a few keys, and everything plays automatically for hours so he/she can go home...

-- would you call this a DJ??

well, admittedly they'd be upping the ante a bit from what a radio DJ does, but yeah.

Then every construction worker can be a DJ without learning anything...

oh, good god. well, we can't have untrained people playing records in public, that would be anarchy. can we legislate against this, because the next awful step is electricians and chippies playing in bands...

[vurt]

do they need music theory if theyre not actually "making" music?

I suppose that many DJ's want to make their own music sooner or later, and if they already know some music theory it's easier for them than if the computer did everything for them in their life.

when they decide they wish to make music, then they can learn it

But imagine a top DJ comes on stage, then he/she switches the laptop on with all this great DJ software and "Mixed in Key" and "Find Songs Automatically" and "Occasionally Scratch Program" and "DJ Effects Volume 599" and so on, presses a few keys, and everything plays automatically for hours so he/she can go home...

-- would you call this a DJ??

Then every construction worker can be a DJ without learning anything...

if someone is enjoying themselves and not hurting anyone, does it matter?

there are things in this world worth worrying about, what others do in any artistic form, isnt one of them.