One-Synth-Challenge 54: XILS 3 Beat Edition - Gossip

[marks-a-whybikky]

DELETED

[QuadrupleA]

Apologies if I added to the crankiness with my post there. @Lotuzia: nice that you guys made a synth like this available for free, minor bugs or not.

[ontrackp]

I just want to add my thanks for making this available for free. I'm having a blast programming sounds for my OSC entry -- this synth is a lot of fun!

[ClaRago]

Thank you Irion and Mark for your remarks. Thank you Xils for that quirky little free synth ( which I can use in Logic).

Even my best friends bug me from time to time , I still love them.

[V'ger]

Should we post bugs and things like that in here too? Im asking because after some deeper checking i have noticed quite a few things which seem to be broken or at least not entirely working as one would expect.

That's been the norm with most OSC threads until now, but as you've already seen it will be different this time:

You can open a thread on Xils-Forum, or better, contact Xils thru the site contact utility, and report what you think are bugs, together with examples. Its the best way for Xils to keep track of everything.

Thats weird, because amore than 1000 people already got the Xils BE before this contest, and none has reported such things..

Not actually weird as the very same statement was made by the developer of the synth in the last competition when obvious bugs were reported. So it seems not uncommon that both the developer and 1000s of people can miss stuff, but a bit obvious really as bugs exist everywhere and the weird thing would likely be if XILS was flawless..


So you heard it people, no bug or error reporting in this thread please, must go straight to the developer.

[Lotuzia]

Should we post bugs and things like that in here too? Im asking because after some deeper checking i have noticed quite a few things which seem to be broken or at least not entirely working as one would expect.

That's been the norm with most OSC threads until now, but as you've already seen it will be different this time:

You can open a thread on Xils-Forum, or better, contact Xils thru the site contact utility, and report what you think are bugs, together with examples. Its the best way for Xils to keep track of everything.

Thats weird, because amore than 1000 people already got the Xils BE before this contest, and none has reported such things..

Not actually weird as the very same statement was made by the developer of the synth in the last competition when obvious bugs were reported. So it seems not uncommon that both the developer and 1000s of people can miss stuff, but a bit obvious really as bugs exist everywhere and the weird thing would likely be if XILS was flawless..


So you heard it people, no bug or error reporting in this thread please, must go straight to the developer.

Yes its easier for Xils to handle errors or bugs this way. Thanks for that.

As for the bugs, yes, like you and I said, no software, synthesizer or else, can 100% escape it. But we're talking there of minor bugs, or affecting only some combinations of systems. Hence why we asked for some valid reports if possible. But not BIG bugs like some reported somewhere in this thread. So here again precise and moderate wording is the matter, at least that's how we see it, and not 110% bugs free claiming from Xils part, wich is just a dream in the software domain.

A simple example : Voice handling : In the Xils3, some modules are mono, and others stereo, like the reverb. So there's a summ before some modules. Modulating mono by stereo signals in a polyphonic patch, other than feeding the reverb at the end of signal chain, can give some interesting effects, but the result is not always garanteed. This is not something that could be called a bug, its the consequence of a certain design, architecture and modulation possibilities. These are programmation possibilities that are not waterproof by nature, but are offered to users. One option would have been to simply disable them.

Xils3, in all versions, is a research synthesizer. And its even more true in the big full version with a plethora of additional modules. You can also do some totally standard stuff, but then ...... you have to follow a standard structure. This is the sense of the Xils 3 full version left page modules where you can save templates, ie complete custom synthesizer structures, that I used a lot when making the Xilistics soundset ; You design your oan synth, and yes sometimes, its a more than different, ( Read :weird: ), one.

[Lotuzia]

Isn't it because XILS has drift in its oscillators by default ?

I find the behavior of amplitude modulation weird too... Sound is always the same no matter how I change volumes of used oscillators. If I put an osc at 0 volume then there is no output, I would have expected to hear the other osc unchanged. And AM volume just change the volume of output, not the intensity of modulation. Maybe I'm missing something ?

I think the problem might be that some of your Oscillators might not be connected, to the filter or enveloppes by example. In the Xils3 all modules, including oscillators, MUST be connected if they are intended to sound in a patch. In other words, if some oscillators are not connected, they wont be heard, whatever volume thay have.

In such case a good thing might be to look in the pin matrix how the oscillators of the patch you're modifying are connected, then add similar connections for the oscillators that are not used in this patch.

Hope it helps,

LtZ

[bzur]

Regarding the forbidden / allowed effects, what about the ones I can load inside Reaktor Player?

[V'ger]

As for the bugs, yes, like you and I said, no software, synthesizer or else, can 100% escape it. But we're talking there of minor bugs, or affecting only some combinations of systems. Hence why we asked for some valid reports if possible. But not BIG bugs like some reported somewhere in this thread. So here again precise and moderate wording is the matter, at least that's how we see it

I'm surprised you would let the topic turn to be about semantics, especially on the internet with fast typing and people coming from different languages etc, but more so after you yourself have had to revise your wording about the same matter of your own complaint; from "HUGE" to "BIG"..

I can sort of understand the protective pride to a product, but to hold it as near perfect and flatly deny any and all issues as insignificant out of hand does honestly not have a place anywhere. Even NASA had to fix a massive bug in Hubble. I myself had to spend 2 weeks to get my purchased XILS 3 LE properly registered due to an error by XILS (still a record here), but more to the point, the synth had a bug that prevented it from re-opening in a project with the last setting which made it virtually unusable (I stopped using it because of this). And this is the same company, and practically the same synth..

On the other hand, as this is a free synth there can't really be any complaints, and as this is also a for-fun competition where even the slightest seems to take that that down this time, I suggest to leave anything untoward be for the duration.

[V'ger]

Regarding the forbidden / allowed effects, what about the ones I can load inside Reaktor Player?

Not entirely familiar with this, but sounds to be free and easily available so therefore ok.

[Lotuzia]

I wish you all the best possible musical time with the XILS3 BE.

Hope that the tracks will be fantastic

Dont forget that Xils-Lab is offering a licence for the big Xils 3 to the winner, and two other goodies for 2nd and 3rd place

LtZ

[ENV1]

I hate doing this, but since Monsieur L doesnt want to let it go, why shouldnt i respond accordingly.

As for the bugs, yes, like you and I said, no software, synthesizer or else, can 100% escape it.

Coming from someone whose standard reply towards anyone who reports a problem with a XILS product is usually 'hundrets or thousands of users havent reported such a problem', as if the existence or nonexistence of a problem were a question of that kind of arithmetic, i find this statement absolutely hilarious. You cant have it both ways, you know.

But we're talking there of minor bugs,

Considering the fact that you have neither seen the whole list of issues, nor seen or heard any demonstrations of the same, one can only conclude that you must be clearvoyant because a normal human being would have no way of determining whether a problem is major or minor without even knowing what the problem is.

or affecting only some combinations of systems.

Considering the fact that you dont know anything about other peoples computers, one can only conclude, again, that you must be some kind of mental artist because a normal human being would have no way of determining whether a problem is related to a persons system without knowing a single thing about other peoples systems.

But not BIG bugs like some reported somewhere in this thread.

Considering the fact that nobody in this thread has even just once used the words huge or big with regards to problems in the software, let alone in CAPITAL LETTERS, one can only conclude that your ability to read and comprehend the written word is not quite as well developed as your clearvoyant skills. Otherwise you wouldnt make the same false claim TWICE. (BTW, this is the main reason for my responding. Those continued underhanded false lying insinuations which are practically bordering on slander and defamation.)

So here again precise and moderate wording is the matter

Coming from you, considering the fact that you are a veritable fountain of underhanded backdoor insults, this is again hilarious. Remember that this thread was going absolutely fine until you came along stirring up the shit.

A simple example : Voice handling : <sometotallyunrelatedstuff>

Considering the more-than-evident fact that you have absolutely no idea what the real problem is, one cant help but wonder why you think you have something to say to the matter anyway. There is no Mono/Stereo problem here. There is a bug in the handler, and this bug is so old it has a beard longer than the sodding chinese wall.


But dont take MY word for it. Read what a user of the moog modular had to say in 2006! He is describing the very same problem here, and that was a whopping seven years ago, when Xavier still worked for Arturia. That very same behaviour can also be found in the CS-80, the prophet-5, you name it. And im PRETTY certain that if i checked, i would find it in Oxium and Synthix and every other of Xaviers synths too. Anyway, lets welcome Elhardt:

Entire Thread Here.

[The] MMV is continuously running even when a note isn't being played, so all parameters are where they should be, and when a new note is played, the same voice is used. In poly mode, when the VCA release time goes to zero, the voice deactivates, and module settings are left hanging in whatever state they are in at that point. Then when a new voice is needed for a new note, one of the those previously used voices is used which is still set to whatever state it was left in when last used, and that junk appears at the start of the new note played. Arturia is starting the envelope and sound of the new note before junk from the last voice is cleaned up. That's not the way to do things. Clean up first, then trigger the new note, geez. Stuff like this really gets me angry, because it's so obvious it shouldn't be programmed this way and it's the kind of problem that can really make a synth useless. This is one of the most major bugs in the general working of MMV.

Want an audio demonstration of the issue? Here you are.

Want to check out the issue for yourself? Load the bank i posted, select ClassicDetuner1, set the voice handler to Circular Poly and play a simple 0/12/0/12 arpeggio.


Just a 'minor' issue, of course. Nothing to be worried about. After all 1000s of people didnt report it, so it cant be that bad. Maybe it doesnt even really exist. Or its just a problem with peoples systems...

[Lotuzia]

Well, so that everyone can understand, the first thing you wrote, some posts ago, was this :

ENV1 1rst wrote

" (Voice handler is buggy, preset manager is a mess, envelope is wonky, etc.)

........ As for the kick problem; obviously all that stripping down to the bare essentials didnt do the synth any good. On the contrary, almost all 'obvious' ways lead into a problem or other because of some issue that exists with what little is still there."

That was very kind of you. In my opinion, I made you a moderate answer, inviting you to send all data to Xils-Lab via the "contact us" utility of the Xils site, and if bugs they were, they would be fixed. I have nothing else to add.

Now, in short, you tell us that all Arturia, and Xils-Lab synthesizers are useless.
"it's the kind of problem that can really make a synth useless. "

Well, I hope you feel better now that you have said it.

[QuadrupleA]

Hey all - this may be bad timing with the thread heating up again, but wanted to share some XILS presets I cooked up. I'll be sitting this month's out I think - been encountering enough problems with the synth that have made it challenging to work with, and I imagine that translates to its paid cousin too, so probably not something I'll use for future projects. Still some interesting ideas in the synth - I like the super-modular approach, lots of sonic possibilities. Just needs some polish in the execution I think.

http://net-savant.com/staging/XilsBePresets.zip

Feel free to use these if they sound interesting - below is a quick little MP3 demo of the sounds in order:

Brassy Pad
Chorused Pad
Dirty bass
FM Guitar Dist (tweak the sine level knob for variation)
Hihat
Kick
Nintendo Square 12.5, gate (NES chiptunes, baby!)
Nintendo Square 25, gate
Nintendo Triangle, gate
Portamento Blip perc
Saw Pluck (I added some convolver reverb in the demo)
Slap Bass, mwhl
Talking Phasy Bass, mwhl
Vibraphone-y

They're in FL studio's .fst channel preset format - unfortunately the Export Bank, Import Bank and other preset features weren't working on XILS BE for me, so wasn't able to package them any other way. If anyone really likes one of these and has another DAW, I can maybe dig a little deeper in the XILS data files - saw some preset1002, preset1003, etc. files in there that might port across. You guys are excellent sound designers so of course feel free to ignore this post

http://soundcloud.com/quadruplea/quadru ... be-presets

[ENV1]

Well, so that everyone can understand, the first thing you wrote, some posts ago, was this :

ENV1 1rst wrote

" (Voice handler is buggy, preset manager is a mess, envelope is wonky, etc.)

........ As for the kick problem; obviously all that stripping down to the bare essentials didnt do the synth any good. On the contrary, almost all 'obvious' ways lead into a problem or other because of some issue that exists with what little is still there."

You say that as if it were somehow reprehensible to state a fact. Which is of course utterly ridiculous because this is no different from saying that rain is wet. If you have a problem with this, dont complain to me, complain to the man who programmed the synth. I had nothing to do with that, im merely an observer.

(BTW, just to make that clear, i have the utmost respect for Xavier and his work. His minimoog is one of the best virtual synthesizers i ever had the honor of playing (especially version 1.6) which is why it is right at the top of my all time favorite softsynths along with 2 or 3 others.)

I made you a moderate answer, inviting you to send all data to Xils-Lab via the "contact us" utility of the Xils site,

Yeah, after insinuating that its most likely just my imagination or whatever because 1000s of other people didnt report anything unusual. Thanks, but i dont think so. I neither have the time nor the inclination to beat the info into anyones head with a club, and if there are more people like you at XILS-lab that is exactly what it would take since the general assumption would always be 'there are no problems in XILS synths so you are probably fantasizing'. Thanks, but no thanks.

Now, in short, you tell us that all Arturia, and Xils-Lab synthesizers are useless.
"it's the kind of problem that can really make a synth useless. "

Well, I hope you feel better now that you have said it.

You should really work on your reading skills.

It was Elhardt who said that, not me, and even Elhardt didnt mention any XILS-lab products at all.

And you wonder why people are getting pissed at what youre saying?