A-Z of Rhythm -For Beginers

[JumpingJackFlash]

there is no such thing as a stupid question

I tend to agree, but the problem in this case is that the OP didn't even ask a question.

If they asked "What is syncopation" for example, then that could have been explained - perhaps even demonstrated. Absolutely nothing wrong with that at all.

The posts that irritate me are the ones that effectively say "I can't be bothered to do any hard work, but I want you to tell me how I can get really good". I'm not saying the OP necessarily falls into this category, but we do get a lot of posts like that on this forum - not asking a specific question, not even wanting to understand something, just seeking ways to leapfrog over what should be years of hard work.

KvR is an awesome resource but do you not see with the bickering that goes on here all it does is hurt KvR, confuse those answering the questions with conflicting info and worse because of the attitudes when they get confused they are afraid to ask another question...is that what you want because that is what is happening.

Unfortunately, I have to agree.
You're absolutely right that there are several strong personalities here, sometimes equal and opposite, and when they come together it inevitably results in "bickering". I'm not excluding myself here, because I know that I too am part of this "problem".

But in a way, that's my point. This is one of the disadvantages of the Internet, and a forum like this in particular. Newbies get overloaded with so many different viewpoints and it only confuses them more.

I'm not really sure what the solution is. Everyone means well here I think, but as I said, we all come from different backgrounds and have different opinions on things.

Get a group of professionals from any discipline together, ask them a basic question about that discipline, and you're likely to get many different - and sometimes conflicting answers. That's inevitable.

If it were possible to time-travel and get Palestrina, Bach, Mozart and Schoenberg all together in one room and ask them about music, there would be some pretty intense bickering there too!

[Tricky-Loops]

Now imagine everyone is posting some tips about rhythm (about different music styles), this thread will get 100 pages long, and nobody can read it all in the end!

I rather prefer a more specific thread - rhythm in EDM, in rock music, in reggae, in metal...

Though we could collect some tips and make a book like "Shortcuts in Rhythm Writing"...

[Hink]

First I agree with almost everything except for the fact that everyone means well...now you know I have gone out of my way on several occasions to thank you personally for your input and I'm going te get back to that but I dont want you to think I'm saying you personally do not mean well.

Taking a step back and being an active member and not much of an active poster in this forum I think you have here a few people who are here to be right and have their egos stroked. Sadly in only takes a few to spoil it for the many. The suggestion someone should be paid for their info has no business in this forum at all because this forum is not about business, as I see it (and I could be wrong) part of what you agree when you join addresses that...if you post here you are doing so on your own and you choose what ane when to post...if you want to charge for your information (which is fine and really it makes sense for a professional to want to teach) then you go to the marketplace and sell your craft there.

I urge you to stop by the diy forum and see the difference (which has nothing to do with me, being a mod there is a picnic and all I ever do is move misplaced threads....it's all about the people who post and they make it an awesome forum...sorry, had to do that...anyhow instead of bickering when there are conflicting answers there is a feeling (imo) of brainstorming. Working together for a solution to one person's problem (no matter how small)...sure the forum subjects are different but the fact is the same could be done here if people would drop the egos.

What to do to resolve some of the problems here? How about for starters stickies with links to commonly asked questions and basic questions. You and others have written much on the subject and then there are other links as well, if this forum had it's own mods that would be a snap...in fact I think this forum needs it's own mods which is not really a bad thing.

Now back to what I wanted to mention about your input, here's the bottom line...when I have questions or want validation on a point I have read I hope to find posts by you. This may not be the same for everyone but I find your post more understandable...so while you may be frustrated with the same questions maybe you should take it as a compliment if they ask you and also a compliment if you answer in a way they can understand (after all that does compliment you)...I'm just sayin, there's always at least two ways to look at things.

Trust me in every forum the same questions keep coming up over and over, that's the internet. I mean "I'm losing interest" or "I may not be cut out for this" in ET non stop, the countless what headphones, what soundcards and so, so many more...that's the internet. But the thing is to suggest that there is a sense of entitlement and that entitlement is wrong is in fact imo way out of line. Again, that's why we have public libraries and now we have evolved to a point where we have the internet...but ideas are meant to be shared are they not? Libraries exist so everyone can have access to knowledge and the internet has expanded this concept...not created it. Have not a lot of composers likely sought their knowledge in a public library whether or not the had teachers? Maybe some of those who have made this forum their home have done used libraries.

Which brings me to your last point, if you put those people in a room...maybe...this is not a room, here you have time to contemplate your words before you speak them. In a scenario like you describe other factors come into play as well and when you have "experts" all together it gets pretty high paced as well which often leads to bickering in all walks of life. But like was said on the page before this instead of taking advantage of being able to take the time to express one's self many prefer to be the first with the right info and must reply quickly when in fact it's time for the thread to slow down for a bit...which ime here at KvR often works, a thread slows down and the animosity goes away after a bit.

I know that I* may not be everyone's cup of tea but I do have good friends here at KvR and because of certain aspects of my life I need what KvR is...I have been a member a long time and feel pretty comfortable at KvR...except here in the Music Theory Forum, I really do not feel as if i am welcome here and I know a lot more people who feel the same way and that's wrong not matter how you look at it...the worst part is I know how to fish, I just want to get better at it

*not that this is about me in any way, I'm just using myself as an example instead of speaking for others

[JumpingJackFlash]

Now back to what I wanted to mention about your input, here's the bottom line...when I have questions or want validation on a point I have read I hope to find posts by you. This may not be the same for everyone but I find your post more understandable...so while you may be frustrated with the same questions maybe you should take it as a compliment if they ask you and also a compliment if you answer in a way they can understand (after all that does compliment you)...I'm just sayin, there's always at least two ways to look at things.

Careful; you're just inflating my ego

that's why we have public libraries and now we have evolved to a point where we have the internet...but ideas are meant to be shared are they not? Libraries exist so everyone can have access to knowledge and the internet has expanded this concept...not created it. Have not a lot of composers likely sought their knowledge in a public library whether or not the had teachers? Maybe some of those who have made this forum their home have done used libraries.

There is a big difference though.
The books you find in libraries are subjected to several levels of quality control. They tend to be written by well educated and highly regarded professionals, then proof-read, reviewed, edited and selected by yet more professionals...

On a forum such as this one however, anyone and everyone can have their tuppence worth, and there is often no way for a new poster to separate the wheat from the chaff. All too often we get someone who feels qualified to offer "expert" advice just because they have watched a few Youtube videos and read a couple of articles on Wikipedia.

But maybe I'm just displaying my ego again

[Hink]

Now back to what I wanted to mention about your input, here's the bottom line...when I have questions or want validation on a point I have read I hope to find posts by you. This may not be the same for everyone but I find your post more understandable...so while you may be frustrated with the same questions maybe you should take it as a compliment if they ask you and also a compliment if you answer in a way they can understand (after all that does compliment you)...I'm just sayin, there's always at least two ways to look at things.

Careful; you're just inflating my ego

that's why we have public libraries and now we have evolved to a point where we have the internet...but ideas are meant to be shared are they not? Libraries exist so everyone can have access to knowledge and the internet has expanded this concept...not created it. Have not a lot of composers likely sought their knowledge in a public library whether or not the had teachers? Maybe some of those who have made this forum their home have done used libraries.

There is a big difference though.
The books you find in libraries are subjected to several levels of quality control. They tend to be written by well educated and highly regarded professionals, then proof-read, reviewed, edited and selected by yet more professionals...

On a forum such as this one however, anyone and everyone can have their tuppence worth, and there is often no way for a new poster to separate the wheat from the chaff. All too often we get someone who feels qualified to offer "expert" advice just because they have watched a few Youtube videos and read a couple of articles on Wikipedia.

But maybe I'm just displaying my ego again

no you're not, you're right but this problem is not just here in this forum...it's part of the internet. I call the internet "Mr Whoopee" after a character from Tennessee Tuxedo (old cartoon if you dont know) and often I ask google questions and get all kind of answers (ironically the ones who ask for money are usually lawyers...I'm just sayin ) and I have to sort through the answers to figure out which one makes sense. As I see it once again I know that going in, I'm going to get a lot of wrong answers. It's admirable that you want to ensure that the poster gets the right answer but at the end of the day the best you can do is post your reply and hope the OP gets your point.

About libraries...forgive my ignorance but I dont think I even know where you are from...but here in New England we have some pretty old libraries when it comes to the U.S. and I hate to tell you but libraries are full of WRONG information...in fact lately this has been on my mind so let me ask you....have you ever looked back at your own education (grade school-school of hard knocks and everything in between) and though "wow that teacher was wrong"...sometimes they were not even close...so learning to fish also means learning to be confident in the info you accept as correct. The truth is there is probably more wrong info out there on most subjects than right no matter where you go and one trick in life is knowing how to weed through it

[JumpingJackFlash]

I hate to tell you but libraries are full of WRONG information...in fact lately this has been on my mind so let me ask you....have you ever looked back at your own education (grade school-school of hard knocks and everything in between) and though "wow that teacher was wrong"...sometimes they were not even close...

That's true.
I remember being taught that Pluto was a planet

The world is far from perfect, but in terms of degrees - there is more quality control in a library or a school then there is on the Internet.

Sometimes I go on forums (not this one) and despite a poster's protestations to the contrary, I'm convinced I'm talking with a teenaged schoolboy with delusions of grandeur. Although very easy for such a person to post anonymously on an Internet forum, it's much harder for them to get an academic treatise published, or become a high school teacher.

The truth is there is probably more wrong info out there on most subjects than right no matter where you go and one trick in life is knowing how to weed through it

Absolutely. And how does one become skilled in knowing how to weed through a dozen contradictory forum posts? Is there are forum for that?

[Hink]

Absolutely. And how does one become skilled in knowing how to weed through a dozen contradictory forum posts? Is there are forum for that?

all of them are for that

edit: fwiw I know that being nasty to people does not instill confidence and also no one is right all the time...so if one is never wrong you cant trust anything they say. I mean they're gonna be right and they're gonna be wrong, the problemis figuring which is which. So if someone insists they are never wrong one should see that as a red flag and seek advice from someone else

[Tricky-Loops]

If I looked into a forum, and there were only exact answers from the most profiled music university professors -- how boring this would be??

This *IS* the advantage of a forum like KVR that everyone can reply - the guitar player from the street, the DJ, the rich piano boy, the music teacher, your singing neighbor girl, and everyone knows something that the other doesn't know...

And even when some people - like I do or vurt or sendy or debralo and many more - sometimes make a joke to bring in some irony or fun or to make people thinking about something, then this has its sense, too.

What I absolutely hate are these bashing & flamebaiting chain reactions where every quote is pulled out of context and the whole thread consists of: "And you have said that I didn't have said what you thought you'd say..." - "But you didn't say that I've said what you were about to say..."

[experimental.crow]

knowledge is free, that's why for centuries there have been free public libraries

i would tend to disagree ...
knowledge is not free ...
you may not have paid for it , but rest assured , someone did ...

About libraries...forgive my ignorance but I dont think I even know where you are from...but here in New England we have some pretty old libraries when it comes to the U.S. and I hate to tell you but libraries are full of WRONG information...

so ...
knowledge is free , but most likely wrong ?...
my head is spinning ...

there is no such thing as a stupid question

of course there are stupid questions ...
the world is awash in stupid questions ...
in the spirit of keeping knowledge free , i'll give you this one , on the house ...

Q :
i have a new swimsuit , made from raw flank steak ...
is it safe to wear it , whilst swimming in these shark-infested waters , here , next to the
saltwater crocodile reserve ?...

[Hink]

1. if you want nothing is free, but that's not what I am talking about. There's always the effort of learning that could be counted as a cost too if you want to split hairs

2. I never said most likely, you took my adjective to the extreme...full means there are plenty...but still you're just splitting hairs again

3. Context right? Of course there are stupid questions but if one honestly does not know maybe they should ask right? I mean stupid people have rights too...why do you think they put instructions on shampoo bottles? Why do you think it says "do not use this product in the shower" on a electric hairdryer ? Hell on one of those little towelettes you use after you have lobsta or whatever it says "Instructions, unfold towelette and use". So stupid questions may be smart for some (which may or may not scare the crap out of yah) and I guess the context matters...if soemone is standing in front of a bathroom and is asking where the bathroom is I'm gonna tell him/her before they crap on my shoes...then I might think "that was a stupid question"

Of course that means there are stupid answers...my dad's favorite when I couldn't find something and I asked him if he saw it was "down cellar behind the ax"...I spent a lot my youth crawling around that basement looking for that ax

5. You should thank Iginla for your cup, had he stuck with his first choice I think that might have been enough to tip the ice some. Did you hear he's coming to Boston now

[skipscada]

there is no such thing as a stupid question

of course there are stupid questions ...
the world is awash in stupid questions ...
in the spirit of keeping knowledge free , i'll give you this one , on the house ...

Q :
i have a new swimsuit , made from raw flank steak ...
is it safe to wear it , whilst swimming in these shark-infested waters , here , next to the
saltwater crocodile reserve ?...

That's actually an example of a particularly clever type of question - the rhetorical question - which is a question that implies that the asker and the receiver of the question already know the answer.

However, the existence of the stupid question can be proven by the existence of the expression "duh".

[ghettosynth]

However, the existence of the stupid question can be proven by the existence of the expression "duh".

QED.

This thread is a spectacular success story in true KVR style! Jack, Hink, if you two could get a room, that would be great, the rest of you, please reiterate your point once more, highlighting how previous posters have not understood you and how you would expect such threads to evolve in future, and how this will change the world by eliminating hunger and ushering in the new education age, if, only we could all get along, and, of course, you must use pointlessly run-on sentences, of excessive length and redundancy (such as this one).

Gentlemen, and lady, there is now a 1000 word minimum.

[Hink]

However, the existence of the stupid question can be proven by the existence of the expression "duh".

QED.

This thread is a spectacular success story in true KVR style! Jack, Hink, if you two could get a room, that would be great, the rest of you, please reiterate your point once more, highlighting how previous posters have not understood you and how you would expect such threads to evolve in future, and how this will change the world by eliminating hunger and ushering in the new education age, if, only we could all get along, and, of course, you must use pointlessly run-on sentences, of excessive length and redundancy (such as this one).

Gentlemen, and lady, there is now a 1000 word minimum.

dude I apologize if my posts bother you but you have no place telling me where to post...my intentions are good intentions I assure you

[stringtapper]

The books you find in libraries are subjected to several levels of quality control. They tend to be written by well educated and highly regarded professionals, then proof-read, reviewed, edited and selected by yet more professionals...

On a forum such as this one however, anyone and everyone can have their tuppence worth, and there is often no way for a new poster to separate the wheat from the chaff. All too often we get someone who feels qualified to offer "expert" advice just because they have watched a few Youtube videos and read a couple of articles on Wikipedia.

This issue came up on the SMT (Society for Music Theory) email list a couple of years ago. The discussion was about how hard it was for professional music theorists to edit and maintain Wikipedia pages on music theory subjects because people who don't have the same level of expertise could have just as much control over the content of articles. Consequently the majority of music theorists won't bother with editing Wiki articles.

My opinion is that anti-intellectualism drives the kinds of attitudes that we encounter on the web when it comes to learning music. As I said in another thread, music is as much a craft as an art, but if the craft side is devalued and the artistic side, which is inherently subjective and resists qualification, is elevated above all else then anything goes and there's less of an incentive to gather and disseminate music knowledge.

I was blasted in that other thread for putting forth my opinion the matter so it's obvious to me that emotion drives a lot of the resistance to learning music fundamentals (I was told something about "anyone thinks they are a teacher". Well, I am a music teacher, sooo…).

I would love to help the OP, but as it was already stated there really wasn't a question. In music fundamentals classes you usually start with the various durations and how they relate to each other. Then into meter and how the previously presented durations related to the meter as divisions and subdivisions and showing the differences between simple and compound meters.

[ghettosynth]

However, the existence of the stupid question can be proven by the existence of the expression "duh".

QED.

This thread is a spectacular success story in true KVR style! Jack, Hink, if you two could get a room, that would be great, the rest of you, please reiterate your point once more, highlighting how previous posters have not understood you and how you would expect such threads to evolve in future, and how this will change the world by eliminating hunger and ushering in the new education age, if, only we could all get along, and, of course, you must use pointlessly run-on sentences, of excessive length and redundancy (such as this one).

Gentlemen, and lady, there is now a 1000 word minimum.

dude I apologize if my posts bother you but you have no place telling me where to post...my intentions are good intentions I assure you

Obviously, I needed to inject EVEN MORE funny into my post. Now, start typing mister, your post is 974 words short of the 1000 post minimum. We will not achieve a thread of epic proportions with one sentence posts!