Logic Pro X

[parma]

I think the UI is a huge improvement. Logic 9 looked and felt very dated. X is much nicer to look at (which counts for something you will be staring at for hours). As someone who is not a "power user", the overall look and feel is much more inviting.

The MIDI fx are the big draw for me as they were some of the things that I missed most when I left Live (that and the ease of audio routing). The melodyne-style pitch stretch is a nice addition.

I really, really wish they would have updated the UIs for the included instruments and fx. Ultrabeat is still as fugly as ever.

All the new drummer stuff looks like it will be very useful for some but I stick to synthetic drums so it's not something I'll really use.

Wish there was upgrade pricing, but not a surprise that there isn't.

[synchronizer]

TheoM, I'm a macbook pro 2010 user, and my primary DAW is Cubase 6. Yes, I have a slightly underpowered machine by today's standards and I don't have the benefit of ASIO guard, but I've found that the program Vienna Ensemble Pro is a great supplement to Cubase. The program is an external mixing host, so I can load all of my plugins into it and route the outputs of VEP into Cubase. Cubase experiences fewer CPU spikes and has an overall lower ASIO meter because VEP (programmed well for the mac) handles a good number of processes. It also has its own buffer that doesn't seem to add too much latency. I can set Cubase to 128 samples with a 300 something buffer in Vienna Ensemble pro and the latency while playing a MIDI keyboard feels like something in between those values.
It's too bad that you didn't try demoing both Cubase 7 and VEP at the same time, as you may have liked the idea of using them.

Thanks for the information about Logic X, by the way. It looks like if I were to switch to another DAW for Snow Leopard, it would be Digital Performer 8.

[Monib]

Thanks for the review, TheoM - that's exactly the point of view I won't get from reading magazines or review sites, but it matters way more than the hype. I'm pretty glad that they didn't overhaul the UI, tbh, especially after what they did to FCP. But the audio engine, seriously? That seems like a pretty glaring issue that should have been top priority. I've been getting more into Logic over the past few years as I've done more audio for video, but I'm definitely not committed to it. I was excited for this, but I'm not paying $200 unless I see a feature I really want to upgrade for. So far, there's not much.

Looks like I'll be waiting for a few updates, or maybe just going to Digital Performer.

+1. I was thinking about buying LX, but if there is no change to the internals, then its not worth it.

Thanks Theo.

[tooneba]

I did just end a chat here:

Chat Transcript

Tuesday, July 16, 2013 03:58 PM
Duration: 13 minutes 42 seconds

Stephanie:
Hi, my name is Stephanie. It'll be just a moment while I review the comments you provided.

Stephanie:
Hi Rob, how are you?

Rob:
Hi Stephanie

Rob:
I purchased Logic Pro 9 only a couple of months ago after switching to a mac from winodows and paid £139.99 and now they bring Logic ProX and ask me for another £139.99? How is this?

Stephanie:
I am so sorry to hear that and I understand how frustrating that can be.

Stephanie:
May I please have your Apple ID?

Rob:
I took years to make a switch but i'm now dissolussioned here

Rob:
Apple id is donkeytugger70@?????

Rob:
I just bought a few things from the app store plus others online but this is terrible about another £139.99 for Pro X

Stephanie:
Thank you one moment please

Stephanie:
Unfortunately, Logic Pro X is newer than Logic Pro 9 and it would be two different orders.

Rob:
So there is no upgrade path or free update for people who just bought a mac?

Rob:
I didnt' even know Pro X was coming out till today

Stephanie:
I am looking into this now one moment please

Rob:
okay

Stephanie:
You should be able to download Logic Pro 9 again, but not Logic Pro X.

Stephanie:
Apps purchased on another Mac can be installed on other Macs by opening the Mac App Store on each destination Mac and signing in with the same Apple ID as you used to purchase the apps originally. Selecting the Purchases view at the top of the the Mac App Store window will display all apps which have been purchased with that account. Apps not yet installed on the current Mac will show an "Install" button next to the app name and description. Clicking the Install button will install the selected app on the current Mac without charging the account again. The apps installed in this manner will be placed on the current user's Dock and installed in the Applications folder.

Rob:
your avin a giraffe? ah never mind thanks that wasn't my point sure i can download 9 but i only came to a mac from windows a short time ago and find that i have to pay another £139 just to use Pro X.. thanks again

Stephanie:
I am so sorry about the inconvenience.

Stephanie:
You are very welcome! Thank you for contacting Apple iTunes Support. Is there anything else I can help you with regarding this issue today?

Rob:
Ok thank you

Stephanie:
Have a great day!

Stephanie:
When you are ready please click the "End Chat" button at the top left corner of the chat to close this window and have an email copy of this chat sent. There won''t be an "End Chat" Button if you are on an iPad iPhone or iPod, if so just let me know and I''ll end the chat from this end for us.

Thank you again for contacting Apple Support. We hope this has addressed your needs. If you need additional assistance with this topic, simply visit your case information page and choose the option to chat with us again.
Sincerely,
Apple Support
apple.com/support/country
Support Resources
Support Telephone Numbers Worldwide
Apple Support Communities
AppleCare Products

No luck here with support but worth a try.. looks like i'll just buy it later

Rob

Haha they suck Stephanie didn't even understand your point.

[Weasel-Boy]

I don't have the benefit of ASIO guard,

There is no benefit to ASIO Guard. It's a half baked piece of code that causes more problems than it solves. Turn it on and you immediately get a 5-15% CPU hit.
Even Steinberg's forum administrators have suggested turning it off to "fix" a myriad of problems.

Additionally, their attempt to create a new Mixer area is one of the worst implementations in recent history. Besides being buggy as all get out, it is a royal work-flow killer.

You aren't missing anything with C6.5. Stick with that to get real work done until they wise up.

[synchronizer]

I don't have the benefit of ASIO guard,

There is no benefit to ASIO Guard. It's a half baked piece of code that causes more problems than it solves. Turn it on and you immediately get a 5-15% CPU hit.
Even Steinberg's forum administrators have suggested turning it off to "fix" a myriad of problems.

Additionally, their attempt to create a new Mixer area is one of the worst implementations in recent history. Besides being buggy as all get out, it is a royal work-flow killer.

You aren't missing anything with C6.5. Stick with that to get real work done until they wise up.

Would you believe that I didn't upgrade to 6.5 until it was too late? Once 7.0 was announced, the $50 upgrade path from 6.0.x to 6.5.x was removed. Snow Leopard can't run Cubase 7 but purchasing the upgrade is the only way for me to get a 6.5 license. Basically I'd have to waste $149.99 for a $49.99 upgrade. I didn't realize that Steinberg would force me to do this if I wanted to upgrade.

I'm not interesting in upgrading to Mountain Lion; Apple has been making OSX worse over time.

I suppose that the lesson to learn is that one shouldn't place all of one's trust inany software company.

Anyway, I do recommend Vienna Ensemble Pro. I have no buyer's remorse for it.

[medienhexer]

Well, I, personally, am REALLY excited. The new GUI and the new features just click with me. A total must-have for me.

Now, about the legacy engine, if that is really the case - maybe they found they didn't have to do a complete re-write like FCPX to improve Logic's engine but didn't have the time to do it right now. All the new features, I can tell, must have been in development for more than a year to reach this level of refinement. I'd estimate more in the two years area, depending on team size. So, with us compaining about four years without major update, maybe they felt added features was good enough.

So, during the lifecycle of Logic 9, users received drastic improvements for free. Take just 64 Bit as an example. That can't have been pretty, going from 32 Bit Carbon to 32 Bit plus 64 Bit Cocoa. QA nightmare for sure. Still, they pulled it off. For free. No major update. Then, not much of a user feature, going AppStore compliant. That must have taken some effort. Not free this time, though

But these examples to me show that Emagic/Apple aren't afraid of introducing drastic changes as they go. So maybe a new audio engine simply needs more time so they went with the old one for now as it's there and it has been doing fine for some time. Maybe the new one relies on Mavericks features. Maybe the new one relies on a new hardware paradigm like the new Mac Pro. We will see when/if we see improvements in that area.

Features which I thought were in development for sure didn't surface, I admit.
- intelligent background freezing
- more flexible MIDI to/from AUs
- making use of GPU processing for audio
- Freezing of Multi-Out AUs? Did that make it?
- switchable 'analog console'-style mixer behavior with saturation, crosstalk and all the good stuff

However, there's plenty that I didn't expect and MANY things that I was hoping for have been implemented. So, Apple, unveil the new iMacs and the Pro already so I can make a decision and throw my money at you, already!

[tooneba]

I would wait at least 3 months for the early adopters to beta test the shit out of it.

There's no real reason to upgrade to X at this point unless you want Melodyne style audio shifting, a greasy new UI and yet another reason to sack your drummer.

It's basically the same thing without no 32 bit.

Same here. I've been running all my shit at 32 to allow for lazy developers' plugs (cough sampletank) to work. I have no idea what plugins I'm using that are available in 64. Research starts tonight.

-Sam

No, the plugin you bought was actually 32 bit and they aren't oblidged to provide another features for users. You are making false accusation as well as the other complainers doing.

[medienhexer]

I did just end a chat here:

Chat Transcript

Tuesday, July 16, 2013 03:58 PM
Duration: 13 minutes 42 seconds

Stephanie:
Hi, my name is Stephanie. It'll be just a moment while I review the comments you provided.

Stephanie:
Hi Rob, how are you?

Rob:
Hi Stephanie

Rob:
I purchased Logic Pro 9 only a couple of months ago after switching to a mac from winodows and paid £139.99 and now they bring Logic ProX and ask me for another £139.99? How is this?

Stephanie:
I am so sorry to hear that and I understand how frustrating that can be.

Stephanie:
May I please have your Apple ID?

Rob:
I took years to make a switch but i'm now dissolussioned here

Rob:
Apple id is donkeytugger70@?????

Rob:
I just bought a few things from the app store plus others online but this is terrible about another £139.99 for Pro X

Stephanie:
Thank you one moment please

Stephanie:
Unfortunately, Logic Pro X is newer than Logic Pro 9 and it would be two different orders.

Rob:
So there is no upgrade path or free update for people who just bought a mac?

Rob:
I didnt' even know Pro X was coming out till today

Stephanie:
I am looking into this now one moment please

Rob:
okay

Stephanie:
You should be able to download Logic Pro 9 again, but not Logic Pro X.

Stephanie:
Apps purchased on another Mac can be installed on other Macs by opening the Mac App Store on each destination Mac and signing in with the same Apple ID as you used to purchase the apps originally. Selecting the Purchases view at the top of the the Mac App Store window will display all apps which have been purchased with that account. Apps not yet installed on the current Mac will show an "Install" button next to the app name and description. Clicking the Install button will install the selected app on the current Mac without charging the account again. The apps installed in this manner will be placed on the current user's Dock and installed in the Applications folder.

Rob:
your avin a giraffe? ah never mind thanks that wasn't my point sure i can download 9 but i only came to a mac from windows a short time ago and find that i have to pay another £139 just to use Pro X.. thanks again

Stephanie:
I am so sorry about the inconvenience.

Stephanie:
You are very welcome! Thank you for contacting Apple iTunes Support. Is there anything else I can help you with regarding this issue today?

Rob:
Ok thank you

Stephanie:
Have a great day!

Stephanie:
When you are ready please click the "End Chat" button at the top left corner of the chat to close this window and have an email copy of this chat sent. There won''t be an "End Chat" Button if you are on an iPad iPhone or iPod, if so just let me know and I''ll end the chat from this end for us.

Thank you again for contacting Apple Support. We hope this has addressed your needs. If you need additional assistance with this topic, simply visit your case information page and choose the option to chat with us again.
Sincerely,
Apple Support
apple.com/support/country
Support Resources
Support Telephone Numbers Worldwide
Apple Support Communities
AppleCare Products

No luck here with support but worth a try.. looks like i'll just buy it later

Rob

Haha they suck Stephanie didn't even understand your point.

What you meant to say is: SIRI didn't even get your point. Seriously.

Did you ever talk to one of 'em chat programs that mobile phone carriers use? Stephanie behaves exactly like that.

[tooneba]

Haha they suck Stephanie didn't even understand your point.

What you meant to say is: SIRI didn't even get your point. Seriously.

Did you ever talk to one of 'em chat programs that mobile phone carriers use? Stephanie behaves exactly like that.

Well, apple may be using their Siri to answer chat.... Or they are trying to proove if they can layoff operators.

[masterhiggins]

I would wait at least 3 months for the early adopters to beta test the shit out of it.

There's no real reason to upgrade to X at this point unless you want Melodyne style audio shifting, a greasy new UI and yet another reason to sack your drummer.

It's basically the same thing without no 32 bit.

Same here. I've been running all my shit at 32 to allow for lazy developers' plugs (cough sampletank) to work. I have no idea what plugins I'm using that are available in 64. Research starts tonight.

-Sam

No, the plugin you bought was actually 32 bit and they aren't oblidged to provide another features for users. You are making false accusation as well as the other complainers doing.

Okay, first off...the term "accusation" has strong connotations. You usually use it when you're referring to something illegal or wrong (such as child abuse). Laziness doesn't usually fall under that category. It's not wrong or illegal to be lazy. It's just annoying. And when I use the term lazy, I'm comparing them to almost every other plugin company in my AU folder that conforms to basic paradigms of compatibility (such as 64-bit compatibility). Is comparing them to another company a bit unfair? Sure. I'll admit that, but it doesn't make them suck any less.

Second...compatibility is not something I consider an "added feature." It's a basic requirement. It's not like I expect them to port to *nix, and it's not like 64-bit sprang up last week. It's been around for a while now.

-Sam

[eluxtria]

I wonder if they've figured out how to allow non-destructive cropping of the left side of midi regions by dragging over yet, like you can do on the right side. Or if it still stops after an eighth note (or whatever).

Yes, Logic Pro X can trim the left side of MIDI regions. [confirmed]

[tooneba]

Same here. I've been running all my shit at 32 to allow for lazy developers' plugs (cough sampletank) to work. I have no idea what plugins I'm using that are available in 64. Research starts tonight.

-Sam

No, the plugin you bought was actually 32 bit and they aren't oblidged to provide another features for users. You are making false accusation as well as the other complainers doing.

Okay, first off...the term "accusation" has strong connotations. You usually use it when you're referring to something illegal or wrong (such as child abuse). Laziness doesn't usually fall under that category. It's not wrong or illegal to be lazy. It's just annoying. And when I use the term lazy, I'm comparing them to almost every other plugin company in my AU folder that conforms to basic paradigms of compatibility (such as 64-bit compatibility). Is comparing them to another company a bit unfair? Sure. I'll admit that, but it doesn't make them suck any less.

Second...compatibility is not something I consider an "added feature." It's a basic requirement. It's not like I expect them to port to *nix, and it's not like 64-bit sprang up last week. It's been around for a while now.

-Sam

I see I'll pull of the strong connotations of the 'accusation'. Well, first of all, I don't understand his lazy word directly toward a small plugin company rather than a big company that (seems to) have ditched 32bit plugin compatibility from their latest product. I know most of users except some complainers are blaming the big company. And 64 bit is newer technology that supports a lot more memory than 32 bit. It is indeed massive enhancement and new feature.

By the way, it sounds like a studio says "I don't like the synth you brought so don't bring it to our studio next time, alright?" and you are blaming the synth manucature lazy for the design/function.

[cryophonik]

Got Logic Pro X earlier this evening and have been playing around with it for a few hours. Initial thoughts are very positive overall, although I'm annoyed that we STILL can't move tracks around in the mixer (how dumb is that?!). Anyway, I love the new look overall and all of the new features that I've used so far are working great. Maybe I'm in the minority (especially since I'm relatively new to Logic/Mac), but I actually found myself liking the transport at the bottom of the UI in Logic 9, even though it took some getting used to at first. Oh well...

[machinesworking]

As a Live 8 and Digitial Performer 8 user who once was a huge Logic 6 fan I was hoping it would somehow lure me back. But all the new features, every single one, were in DP7, the version before 8, Flex pitch, stomp boxes, group tracks, easy plug in moving in the mixer, better arp, track based notation... all in DP7.
Oh well, at least I have high hopes for Mainstage 3.