JP-4c for Reaktor: free JP-8000 Supersaw emulation

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Hi guys, I have only just noticed this post so will chime in.

Research is always about building on peoples previous ideas, questioning and disputing methods and discovering things that one day other people themselves may then build their own research around. This is exactly why I thought it would be helpful to release this.

When I was initially writing my paper I found it difficult to find much useable information on the Super Saw. After a few months of searching I managed to dig up Adam's project. After reading it through I decided to try build on what he had already discovered by trying to distinguish which of these elements gave the Super Saw its unique sound. So my project took into account that his research was correct in producing an effective emulation, and by changing these parameters and comparing them to the original, hopefully something would appear to be the most important element. I wanted to release this so people who were in a similar situation to myself, having trouble finding forms of credible research, could maybe stumble across this themselves and take references, ideas and methods from it for their own use. Or even say, "I think this is the wrong way to do it" and try things out a different way.

There are probably many people who are just interested in using it for their own music and not interested in any research, thats great too. I didn't want to make people pay for it or anything as I wasn't doing it for a commercial venture, use it however you please! All I would ask is that if you are using a part of this to just include me as a reference.

So just a couple of quick points:

*Yes this was built using the same techniques found in Adams paper (hence the references) however it was modelled off my own JP-8080 which turns out produced some small differences in numbers.

*The patch is pretty basic for a few reasons, the main reason was it was done to a schedule, it didn't need to be the next break-through synth, just something that provided an effective and viable emulation.

*This is not meant to replace Adams Synth in any way, its modelled on my own unit, and does not have the same features that the JP6K includes like dual Super Saw oscillators.

I hope this sheds some light and clears some things up for you guys, but most of all I hope you enjoy using it! :)
Alex

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Hi Alex,

nice to see you chiming in. :)

As you have maybe noticed i just posted a way how to implement your Supersaw oscillator in NI Monark.
I my opinion it sounds really great with that combination. I hope you don't see this as a "rape" of your work.

That supersaw module/macro seem to work and sound nicely indeed.


Ingo
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Hi Ingonator,

Yes I have just been reading that, could turn out to be very nice indeed when its finished! I have yet to upgrade to Komplete 9 but Monark certainly looks interesting.

Not at all, feel free to use it how you please, its there to be experimented with so enjoy :)

Alex

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alexmshore wrote:Hi Ingonator,

Yes I have just been reading that, could turn out to be very nice indeed when its finished! I have yet to upgrade to Komplete 9 but Monark certainly looks interesting.

Not at all, feel free to use it how you please, its there to be experimented with so enjoy :)

Alex
Hi Alex,

This will be a source for quite a few experiments in the future i guess.

Again many thanks for providing this as a free ensemble. :tu:

Will try to make that Monark modification look and work a bit nicer while it already sounds great with that first version.

The poly modification gets my CPU to the limit bút it still works. :)


PS:
started to modify my first post a bit as it was mostly done before really testing this. Have still not tried to compare with JP6K yet...


Ingo
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Having designed a few supersaw synths on the Reaktor site (which I won't mention as this is not my thread). I have to say very nice work Alex. I really appreciate the work you've put into this.

How close does this emulation come to your actual hardware?

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Just listened to Alex' first single:
http://alex-shore.com/dancemusic/

Sounds great to me. :)


Ingo
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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I like this ensemble, it's very much to the point, and comes with many "bread and butter" sounds in the form of leads and pads.

The filter is very responsive, and sounds smooth :tu:

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Numanoid wrote:
The filter is very responsive, and sounds smooth :tu:
He did great work about the Supersaw part in deed but the filter are Reaktor stock filters (e.g. Pro-52 filter module for the LPF, no core cell modules used in the whole ensemble).
Anyway this does not mean the Reaktor ensemble sounds bad.

The Chorus FX looks quite complex if you open the macro. Does not look like a factory macro.

I really love how the supersaw module sounds when added to Monark. This sounds really different compared to the original JP-4c ensemble.


Ingo
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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cyberheater wrote:Having designed a few supersaw synths on the Reaktor site (which I won't mention as this is not my thread). I have to say very nice work Alex. I really appreciate the work you've put into this.

How close does this emulation come to your actual hardware?
Thanks for that cyberheater.

I performed a number of blind listening tests and the results showed the emulation to be very accurate. Similarly when comparing spectrograms, the results were very good. Occasionally there was some discrepancies with the very extreme detune at the top end of the scale, with some results suggesting that the emulation was detuning every so slightly too much, however I reworked the final values after some more tests to increase the accuracy.

There is of course a few things that I did not take into account, for instance any THD applied to the original from the JP-8080 outputs.

One thing I also found interesting with my own unit was that the detune was never zero. So when i turn the mix all the way up to full there is, again ever so slight, beating between the sawtooth waves. This was again implemented within the patch however in Adams paper he has the detune starting from absolute zero. Which is right I'm not sure, I wouldn't have thought it would make that much difference but I would have liked to get my hands on another unit and see which. Hopefully one day! :)
Numaniod wrote:I like this ensemble, it's very much to the point, and comes with many "bread and butter" sounds in the form of leads and pads.

The filter is very responsive, and sounds smooth?
Thanks a lot!
He did great work about the Supersaw part in deed but the filter are Reaktor stock filters (e.g. Pro-52 filter module for the LPF, no core cell modules used in the whole ensemble).
Anyway this does not mean the Reaktor ensemble sounds bad.

The Chorus FX looks quite complex if you open the macro. Does not look like a factory macro.

I really love how the supersaw module sounds when added to Monark. This sounds really different compared to the original JP-4c ensemble.
Yeah the filters do the job but your right they could be better :lol:
alex-shore.com
Producer / Composer / Sound Design

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Ingonator wrote:but the filter are Reaktor stock filters (e.g. Pro-52 filter module for the LPF, no core cell modules used in the whole ensemble).
I paid €100 for Reaktor, included filters (stock or not) should sound good at that price :D

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good stuff!
how about a collaborative/community developed mega jp8080 ensemble? :)
(original author's permission required of course)

i'll do the graphics :D

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Last edited by Ingonator on Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:10 pm, edited 10 times in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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gamecat666 wrote:good stuff!
how about a collaborative/community developed mega jp8080 ensemble? :)
(original author's permission required of course)

i'll do the graphics :D
That would be an interesting 'project', indeed. I always liked the jp8080.

8)
I'm not a musician, but I've designed sounds that others use to make music. http://soundcloud.com/obsidiananvil

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Thanks very much for this Alex. I listened to the demo and it sounds very much like the original.

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Numanoid wrote:I like this ensemble, it's very much to the point, and comes with many "bread and butter" sounds in the form of leads and pads.

The filter is very responsive, and sounds smooth :tu:
I just did a quick edit in reaktor to make it more like a jp8000 (dual layers) and added in the 'new' reaktor filters whilst I was doing it - if you think it sounds nice with the 'old' (pro52) lp filter, try it with the ladder x3 and a suitable amount of filter saturation :love:

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