Alternative to Sylenth1

[ferez21]

What's the most CPU friendly, yet aliasing-free supersaw synth that's considered Sylenth quality? It should have at least 16 saws per voice - Sylenth does 32 IIRC, 8 for each of 4 oscs. They should be stereo spreadable, i.e. each unison oscillator should have stereo output and some control over spread or pan.

I'm asking because, errrm, I've dug out an old supersaw oscillator module. It was supposed to go into Zebra, but then I decided to add larger unison to its normal oscillators. This module feels a bit lost, so maybe we can use it to lower the overall CPU print of our fleet. I'd love to run some benchmarks when I have a free minute.

(not that I've got any idle time to spend on this, but I'm curious and there's no day without anyone asking us about a low CPU synth for EDM)

A few suggestions:

Sonigen Modular - free, light on cpu and have a dedicated supersaw module.

Audjoo Helix - low on cpu, can do some of the beat supersaws ive ever heard.

Toxic Biohazard - also quite light on cpu, have 6 oscs which can be doubled with 8 unisons per osc.

[fgimian]

What's the most CPU friendly, yet aliasing-free supersaw synth that's considered Sylenth quality? It should have at least 16 saws per voice - Sylenth does 32 IIRC, 8 for each of 4 oscs. They should be stereo spreadable, i.e. each unison oscillator should have stereo output and some control over spread or pan.

I'm asking because, errrm, I've dug out an old supersaw oscillator module. It was supposed to go into Zebra, but then I decided to add larger unison to its normal oscillators. This module feels a bit lost, so maybe we can use it to lower the overall CPU print of our fleet. I'd love to run some benchmarks when I have a free minute.

(not that I've got any idle time to spend on this, but I'm curious and there's no day without anyone asking us about a low CPU synth for EDM)

I would say that Sylenth1 is definitely one of the lowest CPU supersaws, but Zebra2 is not far off and in my opinion is slightly cleaner sounding at its Crisp setting.

I would LOVE for you to consider making something more dance oriented mate. Zebra2 is a killer synth and is so close to being there already.

It would be great to have more ability to adjust the number of voices in the unison of oscillators. Also Sylenth1 produces a wider stereo image at 100% width on unison than Zebra2 does. A standard stereo width plugin like Voxengo MSED can even this out, but it does form a negative perception when one doesn't take that into account.

I personally feel that the main thing Zebra is missing in comparison to Sylenth1 is the more edgy distortion and some other effects in Sylenth1's effects section. I would love to hear some awesome Foldback and Clip distortion units in Zebra, as opposed to the more polite and subtle Shaper. VCF Vintage 2 drive is the closest I could find in Zebra2 for such distortion.

In terms of sheer quality, the oscillators in Zebra2 along with the XMF analog / eco model sound every bit as good as Sylenth1. Check out some preset comparisons I posted on Gearslutz here http://www.gearslutz.com/board/8885532-post69.html

[Examigan]

In my eyes - Spire, ElectraX & DUNE... all 3 very nice on the CPU load.

?

[Bronto Scorpio]

What's the most CPU friendly, yet aliasing-free supersaw synth that's considered Sylenth quality? It should have at least 16 saws per voice - Sylenth does 32 IIRC, 8 for each of 4 oscs. They should be stereo spreadable, i.e. each unison oscillator should have stereo output and some control over spread or pan.

I'm asking because, errrm, I've dug out an old supersaw oscillator module. It was supposed to go into Zebra, but then I decided to add larger unison to its normal oscillators. This module feels a bit lost, so maybe we can use it to lower the overall CPU print of our fleet. I'd love to run some benchmarks when I have a free minute.

(not that I've got any idle time to spend on this, but I'm curious and there's no day without anyone asking us about a low CPU synth for EDM)

Audjoo Helix - low on cpu, can do some of the beat supersaws ive ever heard.

Definitely! I don't really know the other ones.
Vember Audio Surge is also worth a try

I think the U-He team is busy enough though....Bazille, Satin, Diva update, Presswerk, Zebra 3, AAX support, maybe some Uhbik stuff, maybe some rack extensions........

Cheers
Dennis

[VitaminD]

What's the most CPU friendly, yet aliasing-free supersaw synth that's considered Sylenth quality? It should have at least 16 saws per voice - Sylenth does 32 IIRC, 8 for each of 4 oscs. They should be stereo spreadable, i.e. each unison oscillator should have stereo output and some control over spread or pan.

I'm asking because, errrm, I've dug out an old supersaw oscillator module. It was supposed to go into Zebra, but then I decided to add larger unison to its normal oscillators. This module feels a bit lost, so maybe we can use it to lower the overall CPU print of our fleet. I'd love to run some benchmarks when I have a free minute.

(not that I've got any idle time to spend on this, but I'm curious and there's no day without anyone asking us about a low CPU synth for EDM)

I would say that Sylenth1 is definitely one of the lowest CPU supersaws, but Zebra2 is not far off and in my opinion is slightly cleaner sounding at its Crisp setting.

I would LOVE for you to consider making something more dance oriented mate. Zebra2 is a killer synth and is so close to being there already.

It would be great to have more ability to adjust the number of voices in the unison of oscillators. Also Sylenth1 produces a wider stereo image at 100% width on unison than Zebra2 does. A standard stereo width plugin like Voxengo MSED can even this out, but it does form a negative perception when one doesn't take that into account.

I personally feel that the main thing Zebra is missing in comparison to Sylenth1 is the more edgy distortion and some other effects in Sylenth1's effects section. I would love to hear some awesome Foldback and Clip distortion units in Zebra, as opposed to the more polite and subtle Shaper. VCF Vintage 2 drive is the closest I could find in Zebra2 for such distortion.

In terms of sheer quality, the oscillators in Zebra2 along with the XMF analog / eco model sound every bit as good as Sylenth1. Check out some preset comparisons I posted on Gearslutz here http://www.gearslutz.com/board/8885532-post69.html

Agreed.. That and they need way more EDM preset packs.. I don't want to or have time to go through thousands of Zebra patches looking for the few mostly usable presets for an EDM song. And EDM does not mean supersaw specifically.. even though it includes it.

If you, Urs, added what soundpalace suggested here to Z3 (thicker unison, wider stereo spread, fatter more edgier distortions) and then handed it over to some *Quality* EDM preset houses (such as Aiyn Zahev and some of the guys on beatport) for at least one bundled bank to get the ball rolling (and several pay-for banks)... you'd have a winner. Preset banks are key if you want to compete here -- that was one of the big reasons why Sylenth1 is/was so popular. You need to get 3rd parties deeply familiar in EDM interested in making banks for the product.

I too have, in the past, setup a 1:1 recreation of Sylenth1 patches in Zebra2 and have made them identical in sound (to the point where I didn't know which was which) but in some, where there were differences, the differences where always (IIRC) in the aforementioned features.

[Urs]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check some of these out

Yeah, hmmm, Zebra.

I think though the appeal of Sylenth lies within its simplicity. No PWM and Sync allows for remarkable optimisations, and the choice of features is just spot on for certain types of sounds. We hear all too often how Zebra intimidates people who are after just this or that. For many people it's simply too much of everything, with too much detail that requires attention. Dunno if presets alone can fix that.

After fixing some gui issues with Satin I spent a few minutes on the code. So, 8 voices of Sylenth with 32 saws each (uhm, 256 voices in Sylenth lingo) cost about 10% on my machine. I get the same at 7% if I allow for the same routing options as Sylenth (i.e. mix two oscs into one filter), but it needs 11% for flexible Zebra-style routing (2 filters each with a choice of 4 oscillators). That's due to 4x downsampling instead of just 2x, and extra buffer requirements. If however we allow for an itsy tiny bit of aliasing of less than, say, Virus level, then we're down to 6% with flexible routing. But there's another idea... damn...

Ok, back to the other stuff and maybe we'll pick it up in a few months.

- Urs

[tehlord]

There's some magic in Sylenth's Envelopes as well, it's not just the oscillators.

They just seem to work for that classic trance pluck sound. I'm sure it's just the curves that have been implemented, but whatever it is they're spot on.

[Bronto Scorpio]

Ok, you guys finally did it! I'm downloading the Sylenth demo

Cheers
Dennis

[tehlord]

Ok, you guys finally did it! I'm downloading the Sylenth demo

Cheers
Dennis

Good to see you back

[Cyforce]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check some of these out

Yeah, hmmm, Zebra.

I think though the appeal of Sylenth lies within its simplicity. No PWM and Sync allows for remarkable optimisations, and the choice of features is just spot on for certain types of sounds. We hear all too often how Zebra intimidates people who are after just this or that. For many people it's simply too much of everything, with too much detail that requires attention. Dunno if presets alone can fix that.

After fixing some gui issues with Satin I spent a few minutes on the code. So, 8 voices of Sylenth with 32 saws each (uhm, 256 voices in Sylenth lingo) cost about 10% on my machine. I get the same at 7% if I allow for the same routing options as Sylenth (i.e. mix two oscs into one filter), but it needs 11% for flexible Zebra-style routing (2 filters each with a choice of 4 oscillators). That's due to 4x downsampling instead of just 2x, and extra buffer requirements. If however we allow for an itsy tiny bit of aliasing of less than, say, Virus level, then we're down to 6% with flexible routing. But there's another idea... damn...

Ok, back to the other stuff and maybe we'll pick it up in a few months.

- Urs

Maybe a "Sylenth2" done by u-He would be something absolutely great!
Just some more features as the current Sylenth (for waveforms, better routing options/flexibility, more filter types + filter-drive) on a very gentle CPU level would be a no-brainer, also if it hasn't this incredible sound quality like DIVA, ACE or Zebra.

There's some magic in Sylenth's Envelopes as well, it's not just the oscillators.

They just seem to work for that classic trance pluck sound. I'm sure it's just the curves that have been implemented, but whatever it is they're spot on.

negative curved envelopes aren't magic, just some extra work for the programmer

[Vertti]

(not that I've got any idle time to spend on this, but I'm curious and there's no day without anyone asking us about a low CPU synth for EDM)

Stop thinking. Stop being curious. Go back to work. I already want to buy Satin.

[Bronto Scorpio]

Ok, you guys finally did it! I'm downloading the Sylenth demo

Cheers
Dennis

Good to see you back

Thanks a lot! I'm glad to be back to music

There's some magic in Sylenth's Envelopes as well, it's not just the oscillators.

They just seem to work for that classic trance pluck sound. I'm sure it's just the curves that have been implemented, but whatever it is they're spot on.

negative curved envelopes aren't magic, just some extra work for the programmer

The envelopes actually seem to get more concave with shorter times, if my ears aren't lying to me.
I just used Sylenth for ~1 min, so I could be wrong.

That's one of those neat little tricks that are possible in small, streamlined synths.
You can of course achieve the same thing in Zebra and many other synths, but you have to do it yourself there.

Cheers
Dennis

[VitaminD]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check some of these out

Yeah, hmmm, Zebra.

I think though the appeal of Sylenth lies within its simplicity. No PWM and Sync allows for remarkable optimisations, and the choice of features is just spot on for certain types of sounds. We hear all too often how Zebra intimidates people who are after just this or that. For many people it's simply too much of everything, with too much detail that requires attention. Dunno if presets alone can fix that.

Yes I did say widespread EDM patches (err meant quality patches) were one of the big appeals.. but this seems, in turn, because of the sound quality and the approachability of the interface as you mentioned.

That is, It really is an easy synthesizer for which to design patches.. and they sound good!

Zebra is intimidating. Just looking at it.. the semi-modularity makes it both powerful and also complex.

Perhaps then if you turned Filterscape into an EDM machine or whipped up a new (non-modular) product, but made it a subset of the Z3 features (thus making Z3 able to import 1:1 exact matches of the presets from the updated EDM synth), then you'd have something there too.

I dig the idea of preset sharing more between products... at least one way ('smaller' product to 'larger' product)..

[tehlord]

negative curved envelopes aren't magic, just some extra work for the programmer

Well I didn't LITERALLY mean magic

The curves are just right though.

[cryophonik]

Seems like a beefed up version of Zebralette with another oscillator, a subosc, more envelopes and FX (esp. arp and trance gate), and with a non-modular architecture would do the trick. Give a snazzy GUI, put a horn on that zebra, call it Unicornlette, and charge $100.