JP-4c for Reaktor: free JP-8000 Supersaw emulation

[Ingonator]

Hi Ingo, Thanks, but there are still some elements of Monark left in the esemble I think, just tried to load it and it tells me I don't have the license installed. It let's me run the esemble in demo mode though.

Strange, i deleted the whole Monark part.

Maybe this is as i started originally from the Monark ensemble.

Could it help if i copy the modules into a fresh ensemble?


Ingo

[BDeep]

Possibly, but that would be a very easy workaround for the copy protection. Don't know how they've implemented it. But if you care to try that, then I'll check whether that can be loaded.
-Bram

[Ingonator]

Possibly, but that would be a very easy workaround for the copy protection. Don't know how they've implemented it. But if you care to try that, then I'll check whether that can be loaded.
-Bram

I updated the file, you could check it.

There are no modules of Monark includes in that ensemble. The problem should be based on the fact that i originally had started from the Monark ensemble.


Ingo

[BDeep]

Possibly, but that would be a very easy workaround for the copy protection. Don't know how they've implemented it. But if you care to try that, then I'll check whether that can be loaded.
-Bram

I updated the file, you could check it.

There are no modules of Monark includes in that ensemble. The problem should be based on the fact that i originally had started from the Monark ensemble.


Ingo

That was indeed the problem, tried it again and it works prefectly now. Thanks again.
-Bram

[jdnz]

Concerning the Stereo Supersaw i found that at high amounts the Superssaw does not seem to Sound like a proper Supersaw anymore but more like a 3 Osc synth played trough a Chorus (if that makes any sense to you...)

yes, at high detune settings it starts to sound a bit discordant, my feeling is that at that end of the curve with only 6 'detune' oscs the hz gap between the oscs is just too much (doubly so when panned out - the way I did stereo spread the 2 oscs furthest apart are the ones panned leftmost/rightmost - might try inverting things so they're panned the least)

I've just hacked Alex's supersaw to be switchable between 6 and 12 detune oscs and will do some testing and see if more oscs helps (less hz gap between them at high detune levels)

like your idea of a supersaw sub-osc too....

[Ingonator]

Concerning the Stereo Supersaw i found that at high amounts the Superssaw does not seem to Sound like a proper Supersaw anymore but more like a 3 Osc synth played trough a Chorus (if that makes any sense to you...)

yes, at high detune settings it starts to sound a bit discordant, my feeling is that at that end of the curve with only 6 'detune' oscs the hz gap between the oscs is just too much (doubly so when panned out - the way I did stereo spread the 2 oscs furthest apart are the ones panned leftmost/rightmost - might try inverting things so they're panned the least)

I've just hacked Alex's supersaw to be switchable between 6 and 12 detune oscs and will do some testing and see if more oscs helps (less hz gap between them at high detune levels)

like your idea of a supersaw sub-osc too....

Hi,
you could check the ensemble that i posted yesterday evening at this threda (the page before this).
I added a few presets which also show the use of two Supersaws.
In several patches i used an octave detuning where the second Supersaw acts like a "Sub-OSc". In one patch ("Fat Strings") i detuned both Supersaws to get an even broader/fatter sound. You could hear the difference if you set the volume of the second one to zero. Using different Mix + Detune values for both could be interesting too.

I also added a "X-mod" knob that controls the pitch modulation of Supersaw 1 with Supersaw 2 which is a bit like "Cross modulation".

Could be also interesting to use different waveforms to get something like a "Supersquare", "Supertriangle" etc.
Maybe this could be implemented with a waveform selector.

UPDATE:
I just created a version of the ensemble i posted that includes multiwave (Saw, adjustable Pulse, Triangle) for all Supersaw waveforms. I also added waveform selectors for ALL single waveforms so you could even mix waveforms within a "Supersaw" or better "Superwave" oscillator. I also added an option to use PWM (with a dedicated LFO).

Here is the ensemble:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... el%20D.ens

This is a screenshot of the GUI:


The oscillator called "Osc 0" is the central waveform.


PS:
Just noticed that JP-4c is added to the library:
https://co.native-instruments.com/index ... chid=13136

Having a look at the MS-20 tutorial i finally got a clue how to transform a mathematical equation to a Core module:



Finally seems to make sense to me...

this is the article/tutorial:
http://www.nireaktor.com/reaktor-tutori ... s-part-ii/

I also found that the Moog filter used in the multi-VCF ensemble posted here is based on the Ladder x3 filter in Reaktor. The biggest difference is that in the Ladder x3 filter the saturation is included in each of the 1-pole modules and in that Moog filter only once for each ladder of 4 single poles.
Besides that i don't see something special in that Moog filter compared to the Ladder x3 filter.


Ingo

[osiris]

Ingo - you're a genius. Alex, I'm using the original version in a song right now. It really sounds good on low pad sounds.
(Really like the basses also)

[Ingonator]

Ingo - you're a genius.

Many thanks for your kind words. Using different waveforms with the Supersaw was something that bothered me a long time.

I just added a version of that ensemble (in my last post here) which uses the Monark filter (Monark filter module not included with the download):
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 18#5437118

That done uses lot of CPU, especially when the Pulse waveform is used (while the Saw uses less).

Like with all Monark versions i had to replace the oscillators with Core versions (which use more CPU) as with standard waveforms the envelope release does not
work.


Ingo

[jdnz]

in a fit of curiosity I decided to see what a supersaw made up of supersaws would sound like (does that make it a hypersaw?).

Whilst the cpu load was quite impressive I can say now that 38 oscs per voice (2 'upper' plus 6*6 detuned oscs) isn't at all exciting - suspect roland knew what they were doing when they settled on 6 for the jp8000

[alexmshore]

Good to hear how things are coming along with you guys. Indeed some interesting experiments here, especially the 38 osc's The stereo widening is something I would like to look into myself at another point, I would hazard a guess and say the original did perhaps introduce something of this nature.

in a fit of curiosity I decided to see what a supersaw made up of supersaws would sound like (does that make it a hypersaw?).

Whilst the cpu load was quite impressive I can say now that 38 oscs per voice (2 'upper' plus 6*6 detuned oscs) isn't at all exciting - suspect roland knew what they were doing when they settled on 6 for the jp8000

I would agree with you there, although it is hard to know for sure it seems to me that Roland would have probably experimented with a few different ideas and decided on 7 oscillators in total. It was a shame, I actually managed to meet and talk to one of their senior product managers, Sean Montgomery. I was telling him about my project and he told me to email him with the finer details and he would see if he could help me out... However unfortunately I never got anything back from him

[MFXxx]

Hi

LOoving this in Reaktor, going to try the Monark mod tonight (think I understand it works without Monark).

Question : Is it possible to implement aftertouch or wave modulation within a short range for the filter setting just a thought as I was playing around

[Ingonator]

Hi

LOoving this in Reaktor, going to try the Monark mod tonight (think I understand it works without Monark).

Question : Is it possible to implement aftertouch or wave modulation within a short range for the filter setting just a thought as I was playing around

The "Monark mod" works only with the Monark filter, more infos here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 18#5437118

Anyway i also created ensembles without that filter.
The complete collection of my ensembles are found in that other thread at the link above.


Ingo

[MFXxx]

Ok thanks need to read more closely.

[jdnz]

Question : Is it possible to implement aftertouch or wave modulation within a short range for the filter setting just a thought as I was playing around

try this - can use mw or aftertouch for filter mod (either the hp or the lp or both)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8Pbcuh ... sp=sharing

[osiris]

A question. I don't think this is done in Alex's .ens (and I don't know if it can be done in Reaktor), but on the original, the Mix knob was to mix the detuned saws in with the original pitch saw. I think this is why some supersaw presets sound so different. Some are big and bold, some like ice. I believe the Mix knob in the .ens is just volume control for the whole oscillator, no?