Hardstyle melodies (very melodic sequences) how to?

[jontah]

Hey there guys! I'm looking to understand how to make these epic hardstyle melodies, they are quite euphoric and very melodic/touching.

I'd like to get some more info about the theory and the "thinking" behind these melodylines, I want to apply it to my own melodies and be able to do similar ones.

I would very much appreciate any tips&tricks, here's more about the songs:


Song #1 to study:
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Artist: Atmosfearz
Title: Fadin' (Atmozfears remix)
Genre: Hardstyle
Link to sample: melody @ 2.20 -
Parts: Lead and bassline
----------------------
Optional info / message:

I need the lead and bass for this song to study, and if possible some theory behind this melodyline! would very much appreciate it! I'm learning how to produce melody lines such as atmozfears are producing, it's epic yet very euphoric and melodic. I really want to learn that. I've been studying ALOT of music theory including all scales in natural major and natural minor, harmonic minor and I've even tried to mix some harmonic minor with natural major etc.

Anyone got some good input on this? I would very much appreciate it!

Song #2 to study:
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Artist: Wildstylez
Title: Wildstylez - Back to History
Genre: Hardstyle
Link to sample: melody @ 1.00 -
Parts: Lead and bassline and chords which becomes the mainlead later on in the song
----------------------
Optional info / message:

Same here, I'd really want to study these midis to understand the structure and the theory behind it. I want to be able to do similar melodies, so if ANYONE got any input and tips/tricks on this, I would very much appreciate it!

Thank you.

[jontah]

Anyone? please?

[Bronto Scorpio]

Seriously, you don't need any theory for this kind of stuff. It's super simple.
The easiest way to get such melodies is by roughly playing the scale up and down.

After a few minutes of painting random notes of a scale into your piano roll you should have something similar, don't think too much about it.

Years ago when the whole "making music with plugins" thing started and people who basically had no idea about the theory behind everything wanted to make trance and stuff there was a stupid rule:
Use only the white keys on your keyboard and start on an C when you want happy melodies and on an A when you want sad melodies. You'll do the other part intuitively, maybe without knowing the rules behind it.
That's really all you need to know for simple stuff like that.

Think about it for 3 seconds and you'll figure out why it works.

(The Music Theory gods will pick it apart in about 5 seconds though).

Ps: No disrespect or anything by the way! I just think people overthink a lot of stuff a lot of times. If you ever want to write a fugue or something, then you should begin to check out some theory. It doesn't hurt if you do it before, but you really don't need it and it will often only stand in your way (like it does now).
I assure you that the guys who made these tracks didn't apply any theory.

Cheers
Dennis

[jontah]

Seriously, you don't need any theory for this kind of stuff. It's super simple.
The easiest way to get such melodies is by roughly playing the scale up and down.

After a few minutes of painting random notes of a scale into your piano roll you should have something similar, don't think too much about it.

Years ago when the whole "making music with plugins" thing started and people who basically had no idea about the theory behind everything wanted to make trance and stuff there was a stupid rule:
Use only the white keys on your keyboard and start on an C when you want happy melodies and on an A when you want sad melodies. You'll do the other part intuitively, maybe without knowing the rules behind it.
That's really all you need to know for simple stuff like that.

Think about it for 3 seconds and you'll figure out why it works.

(The Music Theory gods will pick it apart in about 5 seconds though).

Ps: No disrespect or anything by the way! I just think people overthink a lot of stuff a lot of times. If you ever want to write a fugue or something, then you should begin to check out some theory. It doesn't hurt if you do it before, but you really don't need it and it will often only stand in your way (like it does now).
I assure you that the guys who made these tracks didn't apply any theory.

Cheers
Dennis

Thanks for the reply - but to be honest, I've tried that. It doesn't sound good. As far as I've studied all these midis, they are built upon chord progressions and passing notes inbetween, so I think they apply some theory into the melodymaking atleast.

Aswell as the bassline are chordprogressions to make it flow even more nicely.

These hardstyle melodies tend to also go abit off the scale by either experimenting with harmonic minor scales and not just natural minor scales, and sometimes even mix harmonic minor with natural major scales. That's all i know and what Ive seen from studying some midis.

But I'd like to get a better understanding of HOW to make these uplifting melodies and chose the right notes better,because some really are euphoric and uplifting! I'm sure there's some techniques somehow to make them sound that good..

I would very much appreciate any thinking and tips/tricks of doing so! please.

[Jafo]

But I'd like to get a better understanding of HOW to make these uplifting melodies and chose the right notes better,because some really are euphoric and uplifting! I'm sure there's some techniques somehow to make them sound that good..

I would very much appreciate any thinking and tips/tricks of doing so! please.

Tension and release; tension and release. Tension can be melodic, harmonic, rhythmic, chromatic (as in "color," but I wanted to keep using the "-ic" suffix ), etc. Cadences and sequences. Repetition and variance, followed by something new. It's about orchestrating somebody's emotional responses -- think of it as rhythm on a higher level. Scope some Bach or Mozart if you want to understand it all.

Also, don't underestimate the value of hard work. Beethoven's notebooks show that he would sometimes re-work a melody two dozen times until it was right. Many Beatles songs started out as truly execrable demos.

It also helps to make sure your listeners are chemically treated, but kudos to you for wanting to make music the right way.

[Nanakai]

Thanks for the reply - but to be honest, I've tried that. It doesn't sound good. As far as I've studied all these midis, they are built upon chord progressions and passing notes inbetween, so I think they apply some theory into the melodymaking atleast.

Aswell as the bassline are chordprogressions to make it flow even more nicely.

These hardstyle melodies tend to also go abit off the scale by either experimenting with harmonic minor scales and not just natural minor scales, and sometimes even mix harmonic minor with natural major scales. That's all i know and what Ive seen from studying some midis.

But I'd like to get a better understanding of HOW to make these uplifting melodies and chose the right notes better,because some really are euphoric and uplifting! I'm sure there's some techniques somehow to make them sound that good..

I would very much appreciate any thinking and tips/tricks of doing so! please.

Why not post something that you've done already and take some feedback from forum members? There is no magic formula, and without knowing what your melodies are lacking, it's hard to know what to suggest.

That said, don't give up just because you tried a few times and didn't get it. Music isn't something that comes from studying theory or staring at MIDI events.

[jontah]

Thanks for the reply - but to be honest, I've tried that. It doesn't sound good. As far as I've studied all these midis, they are built upon chord progressions and passing notes inbetween, so I think they apply some theory into the melodymaking atleast.

Aswell as the bassline are chordprogressions to make it flow even more nicely.

These hardstyle melodies tend to also go abit off the scale by either experimenting with harmonic minor scales and not just natural minor scales, and sometimes even mix harmonic minor with natural major scales. That's all i know and what Ive seen from studying some midis.

But I'd like to get a better understanding of HOW to make these uplifting melodies and chose the right notes better,because some really are euphoric and uplifting! I'm sure there's some techniques somehow to make them sound that good..

I would very much appreciate any thinking and tips/tricks of doing so! please.

Why not post something that you've done already and take some feedback from forum members? There is no magic formula, and without knowing what your melodies are lacking, it's hard to know what to suggest.

That said, don't give up just because you tried a few times and didn't get it. Music isn't something that comes from studying theory or staring at MIDI events.

Thanks for the replies!

I'll post my tries here on a few clips:

https://soundcloud.com/bragmore/reeeeee ... -1/s-I3YiJ ( melody comes in @ 1.04

https://soundcloud.com/bragmore/melody545-minor/s-ijows

https://soundcloud.com/bragmore/transformed/s-Hw1nF @ 1.02

https://soundcloud.com/bragmore/hardsty ... dy/s-vMlwG

https://soundcloud.com/bragmore/hardsty ... t2/s-bGklt



There you go.. but if you compare to these melodies for example, it's MUCH more emotionfull;









Thanks!

[jackoo]

Personally, I don't find the targeted melodies in the first post to be outstanding in any way. I would say that nature, and the history of what you have been listening to is your best teacher for building a good melody.

It simply has to come to you, when you're playing with the keyboards. Knowing your way with the keyboard, so that you can rapidly play what you have in your mind also helps a lot, but it's not a must.

If you try to calculate it using some theory, I don't think you'll reach any great results. You have to feel it, not think it! Just my 2cents.

[jontah]

Personally, I don't find the targeted melodies in the first post to be outstanding in any way. I would say that nature, and the history of what you have been listening to is your best teacher for building a good melody.

It simply has to come to you, when you're playing with the keyboards. Knowing your way with the keyboard, so that you can rapidly play what you have in your mind also helps a lot, but it's not a must.

If you try to calculate it using some theory, I don't think you'll reach any great results. You have to feel it, not think it! Just my 2cents.

Sure, I've tried this like a billion times, I know it takes time and that it's something that you have to hear and practice and practice and practice. but they seem to have some patterns. Usually they go for C and B (depending on what scale you are playing, I've noticed), and they also go for Bb and A much.

Is there some general "statements" on what sound more euphoric or not? and when to use it?

I guess not.. but I want to become really good at writing these kind of melodies, I love them!

[Nanakai]

Personally, I wouldn't call the melodies 'euphoric', but it's about as far from my preferred style of music as you can get. I think your melodies are great, for what it's worth. While I don't know what makes a hardstyle melody sound euphoric (or even what makes hardstyle 'hardstyle'), I've notice one tendency in your melodies that may be important. You use a lot of 16th and 8th notes, and while I do hear rests that let the melody breathe, I noticed some subtly longer notes in the youtube videos, often with some vibrato. So, you might try ending a phrase here or there with a longer note, long enough so you can distinctly hear vibrato (even if you don't keep it).

So, that's my advice. I don't think that your melodies are structurally very different from what you've shown as intended examples. This means I'm either incapable of hearing the difference, or you're just being too hard on yourself. The latter is especially common when musicians compare their work to others.

One last observation about tonality in general, you mentioned that you noticed a tendency towards using Bb. It's pretty common to flatten the 7th degree of a major scale for popular music. I think that the standard leading-tone resolution (B-C) sounds kinda proper and "classical", while flattening the 7th (Bb-C) sounds a bit more relaxed while retaining the happy, major sound. This opens up chord progressions like C-G-F-Bb, C-Eb-Bb-F and C-Gm-Eb-Bb (all of which sound pretty happy to me). Something to experiment with.

Anyways, hope that helps.