Buy or wait?

[clipnotic]

Wow, seriously? Arto isn't asking you to do a whole week of unpayed work. He's asking you to provide as much information as possible to help him fix your issues ASAP. That's what every good company will do.

It's your choice not to help, but don't complain if it takes much longer to fix bugs.

Hmm, so you are saying, it's my fault if fixing bugs will take much longer?? So, I'm a bad customer ??? And I only have the right to complain if I will spend my time and help to fix it ???

Well, then finally:

Hello, my name is clipnotic and I'm only a little customer, I paid money and bought a product, I don't want to sell it!

Thank you and best regards


But OK, I will help and I will test all the updates in the future and if Kirnu Cream becomes tight and nice and great ..., I will post a very good eulogy here!

Is that a good deal?

[Naiw]

clipnotic, after reading your posts I rather hope the problem you're having never will be resolved. And considering no one else has the issue and judging from your attitude I would guess the problem isn't with Cream but with you.

[nexussynth]

clipnotic, after reading your posts I rather hope the problem you're having never will be resolved. And considering no one else has the issue and judging from your attitude I would guess the problem isn't with Cream but with you.

I'll second that..

[clipnotic]

clipnotic, after reading your posts I rather hope the problem you're having never will be resolved. And considering no one else has the issue and judging from your attitude I would guess the problem isn't with Cream but with you.

I'll second that..

It was not my goal to produce such a bad mood with my posts! Now, I'm really sad!

I only thought it's about time to bring some motivation to the developers of this product because it's a really nice idea and this idea could become really fantastic ...

For me offering direct criticism is more favourable than praising again and again because that's the way I'm still learning to optimize my music and bring it to a higher level ...

Well, but if you don't like my posts, I can delete them? Then you wouldn't need to arouse hatred and create such bad wishes ... are you thinking your attitude is better?

[Naiw]

It was not my goal to produce such a bad mood with my posts! Now, I'm really sad!

I only thought it's about time to bring some motivation to the developers of this product because it's a really nice idea and this idea could become really fantastic ...

For me offering direct criticism is more favourable than praising again and again because that's the way I'm still learning to optimize my music and bring it to a higher level ...

Well, but if you don't like my posts, I can delete them? Then you wouldn't need to arouse hatred and create such bad wishes ... are you thinking your attitude is better?

I think when a developer asks you for information it means he/she is motivated to attempt resolve your problem, when you refuse to cooperate it simply means there is not much to go on to figure out what's wrong.

Considering few if anyone else has this issue it apparently is something really rare, I don't know what you believe but I can tell I work at an multiinternational company (Unlike Arto Vaarala, who I suppose is only one person) and we have (I don't know the exact number to be honest) but well over 80 testers doing their best to assure quality.

But even though it's heavily tested we still get bug reports from end customers that already purchased the system; some are genuine bugs that only triggers in certain circumstances others are either misconfiguration or external problems.

A bug report saying "Your product doesn't work" will not help anyone fix the issue.
It's typically in the customers best interest to as quickly as possible have the problem resolved.

If you on the otherhand been cooperating and the developer ignored you, then I would agree- you have all rights to be mad and rude.

But reading this thread I don't think you have any reason to behave the way you did, especially not when apparently the developer attempted to get started.

I think you have a strange understanding of motivation if you think negativity motivates anything. Ever heard of the term "constructive criticism?"

If not this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_criticism article will throughly explain the benefits of using it.

[nexussynth]

Naiw, that was polite and well stated imo..

[clipnotic]

... I don't know what you believe but I can tell I work at an multiinternational company (Unlike Arto Vaarala, who I suppose is only one person) and we have (I don't know the exact number to be honest) but well over 80 testers doing their best to assure quality.

But even though it's heavily tested we still get bug reports from end customers that already purchased the system; some are genuine bugs that only triggers in certain circumstances others are either misconfiguration or external problems.
...

OFF TOPIC START:

ok, let's talk about professionals. Beside music I'm a well-trained merchant and I'm working as a programmer and sysadmin, too. For the last years, I programmed many different tools for buisness: databases, tools for controlling department and accounting, web ... some of them are running in big companys and large networks, so they are not toys.

If I'm programming a new tool, I'm doing all parts of that project myself
( = 1 person):

- programming (that's my art)
- testing (I bought me 6 different PC systems for that)
- writing the manual (because I know best what I programmed)

If I'm thinking the tool is finished, THEN I call the customer to show and present him my work. If my customer still has wishes or wants variances of the tool or the manual, I will do it prompt and if that needs changes of my own idea, I will do it, too. Why? Because for me the customer is the king!

Have my tools sometimes bugs? Of course, these things can happen! But if they happen I immediatlely will fix it.

Have my tools many bugs or does it take months or years to get it running although they are still applied by the customer? Never! Why? Because that would damage my reputation and reputation is money!

So, you can trust me, I really know that programming on a buisness level is really hard work!

But high level buisness vs VST market ... hmm, I'm thinking sometimes there are differences?

OFF TOPIC FINISH

Sorry, my english is not the best!

[clipnotic]

A bug report saying "Your product doesn't work" will not help anyone fix the issue.

By the way, here you are right! That's the reason I posted the following, too:
( see page 2 )

And now let's talk about Kirnu Cream:

a) there was a pre release phase
b) I got a good beta price
c) I bought it because I wanted to sponser the developers
d) now we have a full release 1.0.6
e) I'm trying that release now, like the others before
f) I can't chain Cream with other midi plugins because it becomes unstable
g) Notes are swallowed
h) it doesn't run tidy
i) with every loop, notes are changing even if I'm using only the up/down arp
...

So, I gave informations about my problems, too, and that should be enough??
( see d) - i) )

I'm really thinking about what you wrote and again, I DON'T want to bash Kirnu Cream! I like the idea and with its many features it COULD become the best VST arp on the world but FOR ME at the moment it isn't ...

And I think that's really big motivation!?

[wasi]

System specs, OS and what host, project file if possible. If you really want it fixed that is.

It's not about doing other people's work. A developer can't own and test every conceivable system in every conceivable context (there are an infinite number of those). They need user feedback to fix bugs that only appear on some systems. That's just the way software development works.

When a developer offers to help you but you refuse to provide the necessary information you pretty much lose the right to complain IMO.

I like Kirnu. It's a bit daunting at first, but there's a lot you can do.

[Architeuthis]

Kirnu +1

I disagree with the complainers. Part of your unpaid right/privalege as a composer is to make sure your tools are working. If they don't, do everyone a favor and report the bug... or let's see you write a piece of bug-free software.

[PepeLopez]

Let me second, that a comparison between Cream and Cthulhu or Catanya isn't fair. Both competitors are aiming for something different. Catanya is a very simple arp with a sh*tload of presets, Cthulhu is more kinda chordmem player with arp functionality. Cream is an arp with sequencing abilities, you can program it in a way it'll produce output you can't achieve with the other two plugins, period.

Well, on the other side, Cream is much more complex and the learning curve may be steep for some for sure. This causes sometimes a misinterpretation of some features, because you think it behaves wrong, but it doesn't, or you have to set something differently to achieve your desired result.

Providing presets is a problem! The factory presets in Cream are mostly declared like "3k - 2p" which means "input a chord with 3 keys, the preset contains 2 pattern". If you just try the preset with a single key, it may sound odd or simply in a way it wasn't made for. So, when you program something "rolling" (let's say "good working") its hardly assigned to your input and maybe to the synth you're using. I love to develop e.g. basslines or chord rhythms with Cream (see here ) but would that preset helps you as customer?
I started with a 4 step pattern and at the end I had all 12 patterns with up to 32steps... pure fun to play with it!

Like the review in CM says, you can create very unique sequences with Cream - as long as you're willing to take your time.

I for myself can say, that I truely love Cream, which is involved nearly every actual project. I can't figure out any annoying problems right now! So if encounter problems, please report them.

[rasmusklump]

Yes but still: Catanya works in my host, Cream NOT, although I paid for it.

[PepeLopez]

Yes but still: Catanya works in my host, Cream NOT, although I paid for it.

Did you write a mail to the support yet?

[Architeuthis]

Yes but still: Catanya works in my host, Cream NOT, although I paid for it.

Did you write a mail to the support yet?

Wow, exactly. If it doesn't work then get your money back. No one said you had to pay for something that is broken. Kirnu should honor that if he is decent.

[PepeLopez]

Cream works perfectly in almost every major daw, except StudioOne. BUT that is a S1 midi problem which should be fixed with the next (or last) update. Just saying "it's broken" doesn't help. Neither you nor anyone else.