PPG v.3 from Waldorf. What is your opinion?

[Ingonator]

BTW did you ever use a real PPG Wave 2 to know if it's a great emulation or not?
Did you ever play the emulation for a longer time and made your own sounds (including sounds with no or low resonance)?
PPG Wave 3.V is no analog synth, it's more "hybrid" or digital so don't expect it to sound like a Minimoog.

no , not even seen one in person.
but i know what an analog filter sounds like though. and especially a curtis filter.
you can't attempt at doing any 24db properly without the 0dff approach, you just gonna fail. i think it's been shown time again in the past years that the old dsp filters are redundant and fundamentally flawed.

So i should stop using PPG 3.V as it got no 0df filter?

For my own patches (more than 200) i only used high resonance for a few and even than i did not sound really bad.
0df filters alone do not make a synth sound good. Anyway i got enough other synths with that technology. For example i had found how to use the Monark filter in my own Reaktor ensembles (as published in a nother thread here).

The filter in the PPG Wave 2.2 and 2.3 was a SSM2044 filter:
http://www.electricdruid.net/index.php? ... fo.ssm2044

The same filter chip was also used in the Polysix and Mono/Poly while the circuit outside the chip seems to be different in the PPG Wave 2.2/2.3.

In the PPG Wave 2 a Curtis filter was used. This older version is not emulated with PPG 3.V.


Ingo

[Ingonator]

Many people seem to miss the included Waveterm B sample library that includes hundreds of different samples. They are "Lo-Fi" (like in the real thing) but that could make them even more interesting. Some nice Mellotron like samples in there.

Was just browsing trough the sample library again and found a great one called "T393 KB Galaxian Church Organ" in the library file "S85-33.WTB"


Ingo

[olikana]

d.
0df filters alone do not make a synth sound good. Anyway i got enough other synths with that technology. For example i had found how to use the Monark filter in my own Reaktor ensembles .

and why are you using the 0dff monark filter instead of the old standard reaktor ladder filter ? cos it sounds heaps better! (and the standard reaktor ladder is as good as it gets for the old dsp approach...but still can't hold a candle in comparison to a proper 0dff)
a 0dff might not be guarantee of a synth sounding good....but the lack of a 0dff for me is guarantee of a filter not sounding like an analog filter. 15 years of softsynths and VAs have proven that enough.
and btw i'm a big fan of wavetable synths with analog filters. so i hope one good hybrid with 0dffs pops out. there's actually dark zebra but it is a bit too expensive.
or i could make one in reaktor with the monark filter....but first i have many and many tutorials to read

[Ingonator]

d.
0df filters alone do not make a synth sound good. Anyway i got enough other synths with that technology. For example i had found how to use the Monark filter in my own Reaktor ensembles .

and why are you using the 0dff monark filter instead of the old standard reaktor ladder filter ? cos it sounds heaps better! (and the standard reaktor ladder is as good as it gets for the old dsp approach...but still can't hold a candle in comparison to a proper 0dff)
a 0dff might not be guarantee of a synth sounding good....but the lack of a 0dff for me is guarantee of a filter not sounding like an analog filter. 15 years of softsynths and VAs have proven that enough.
and btw i'm a big fan of wavetable synths with analog filters. so i hope one good hybrid with 0dffs pops out. there's actually dark zebra but it is a bit too expensive.
or i could make one in reaktor with the monark filter....but first i have many and many tutorials to read

The Monark filter sounds great indeed but that not only based on the 0df feature as several sounds i like with it use few or no resonance. 0df is only one part of making a filter sound good.

Until the discussíon was brought up with Diva i (and most others too) didn't even care about 0df fiters at all.

I also like the PPG filter model in my Blofeld even if it maybe does not sound like a real analog filter. Most of my patches in my soundbank for the Blofeld do use that filter.

I am quite sure that a PPG Wave with a Minimoog filter would no longer sound like a PPG Wave...

The reason why i like PPG Wave 3.V more than LArgo or my Blofeld (which got tons of more features...) is that it sounds like it sound if that makes any sense to you.

If i want an authentic Minimoog on the other hand i usually use Monark indeed.


Ingo

[Nielzie]

but the lack of a 0dff for me is guarantee of a filter not sounding like an analog filter.

This assumption screams for a blind A/B comparison between real hardware and software (without 0dff).

[Ingonator]

I just realized that recently i created an ensemble for using the Monark filter as an external effect. Would e nice to check it with PPG Wave 3.V.

UPDATE:
Just did a first test. While the Monark filter does not sound bad in combination with PPg Wave 3.V it no longer sounds like a PPG. The PPG filter seems to have a "clearer" or "brighter" sound. At maximum Cutoff they sound very close.


Ingo

[dexterbella]

I think the PPG Wave V3 sounds great just as it is - distinctive and full of character. It would be nice to see it go 64 bit but it's not really a priority for me as it runs just fine bridged in Reaper. My biggest wish for it is definitely the creation/import of your own wavetables.

[arakula]

well, it would be if they'd actually decided to not give it a UI that didnt do its damnedest to emulate all the worst facets of a crappy 1980s LCD style layout. Its barely an improvement over the authentic-PPG style UI on Herman Seib's PPG and at least he gets a pass because its more less a port, not just an emulation.

That's why I called it a Wave Simulation
It uses the original 6809 PPG operating system (or rather my augmented version) running on a simulated 6809 processor, feeding commands to a simulated HD44780 2x40 LCD. It does look a bit crappy, it's unintuitive as hell, but it is precisely what you'd get on the original, including cycle-accurate timing idiosyncrasies (that's 1.5MHz 6809 CPU cycles in this case). Except for the sound - the 3.V captures it better.

[Bronto Scorpio]

I think it sounds great! I love the digital grittiness of the PPG!

However, sadly Waldorf decided to also emulate the very bad aspects of the architecture and the user interface for no reason.
The PPG has always been a very nice, unique synth which is a PITA to programm. They had the opportunity to change that with their emulation, sadly they didn't take it.

I really don't understand why some developers don't see the advantages of software when making emulations.

Cheers
Dennis

[chk071]

but the lack of a 0dff for me is guarantee of a filter not sounding like an analog filter.

This assumption screams for a blind A/B comparison between real hardware and software (without 0dff).

+1

[electro]

but the lack of a 0dff for me is guarantee of a filter not sounding like an analog filter.

This assumption screams for a blind A/B comparison between real hardware and software (without 0dff).

+1

Digital synthesis is the easiest to emulate. HB Wavesim was very good and 3.V is even better, sounding just like you would expect from the PPG. There are probably very few instances where 0dff hurts it.