Surface 2013: good bye iPad?

[miden]

Yes AC I agree I seem to recall similar rumblings when android tablets started to emerge in numbers. And it STILL doesn't have core midi or audio

[sonicflux]

... im guesing youve missed the point of people buying overpriced products because theyre in and they are afraid to be different than the other boys and girls.

Apparently, you don't realize that a Surface Pro tablet costs more than an iPad. Buy whatever works best for you, but you invalidated your argument with your lack of knowledge.

[robogone]

The Surface Pro sells considerably less than the iPad and is a latecomer to the market, which is always a bad thing if you're competing against establish products with the same target audience.

Even with the highly publicized $100 discount I don't see a lot of people rushing out to buy the more expensive Surface Pro.

It's a great idea but poor marketing.

[rockstar_not]

I tried the surface at a Microsoft event held at an airport terminal. I was a recent iPhone 4s owner, with the phone being purchased for me by my employer.

I had been anti-Apple ever since Quicktime for Windows was first released and it seemed to be one of the first 'stealth' applications which made a bunch of audio file association decisions without my permission. That is, by installing QT way back then, it associated all media file types with it as the application. I HATED that. It seemed so Orwellian and against the spirit of the famous Mac TV commercial.

I bought Garageband for the iPhone for the $5 they were asking for and it continues to amaze me at it's actual functionality - to be able to compose on this little glass screen, with usable features and minimal hassle considering the limitations of the screen size. On the iPad it's a tool all of us would have killed for just 5 or 6 years ago. When Apple released the first iPad, I couldn't imagine a use for it that a laptop couldn't do better. Their integration of core audio and midi provided the ability to actually make my brain and opinion do a 180.

My next piece of music gear that I'm saving up for is an iPad. Then it will be at least some of Jordan Rudess' apps, an interface for audio and midi. I may toss my whole home recording PC based rig for this - depending on how this rolls. My Casio XW-P1 has a rubber pad built in just waiting for the iPad to sit on it and the Casio can process incoming audio live - which I plan to experiment with the iPhone fairly shortly. Imagine a generative app like Eno's Bloom feeding audio input to the XW-P1.

Until MS and Google actually understand creative use of computing products in the way that Apple do, their touch-screen products will be also rans in my opinion.

[VariKusBrainZ]

... im guesing youve missed the point of people buying overpriced products because theyre in and they are afraid to be different than the other boys and girls.

Apparently, you don't realize that a Surface Pro tablet costs more than an iPad. Buy whatever works best for you, but you invalidated your argument with your lack of knowledge.

Well it is better spec'd than an iPad.
Theres just nothing to use with those better specs lol

[VariKusBrainZ]

... im guesing youve missed the point of people buying overpriced products because theyre in and they are afraid to be different than the other boys and girls.

Apparently, you don't realize that a Surface Pro tablet costs more than an iPad. Buy whatever works best for you, but you invalidated your argument with your lack of knowledge.

Well it is better spec'd than an iPad.
Theres just nothing to use with those better specs lol

I have to admit I presumed this discussion was about the Surface RT as its more comparable to an iPad whereas the Surface Pro is more comparable to a 'proper' computer ie it can run native Windows programs as its using intel x86 architecture like any normal Windows machine.

Id get one if I had the dosh to burn.

A Surface Pro loaded with Usine and all my VST is way more attractive to me than an iPad. Plus i could run any other software I fancied.
Im not one of those users that wants all touch or nothing, just plug in a mouse.

Must confess I havent looked into the audio performance on these

[egbert]

That is the question really - can you run low latency audio on a Surface Pro? I tried on an Asus Slate which runs Win 7 on dual core i5 hardware and it was no go - the DPC latency spikes were way too high. I tried disabling a few drivers but didn't manage to find a solution.

[IncarnateX]

I cant see that at work but im guesing youve missed the point of people buying overpriced products because theyre in and they are afraid to be different than the other boys and girls.

Well you guessed wrong but might have got it right if you had seen the advertisement. The video smells of "YOU-ARE-SO-IN-IF-YOU-BUY-A-SURFACE-TABLET", so let me specify the question for you: How come that people who want to be in buy and iPad and not a Surface, when they according to this vid certainly are part of the in-crowd if they do?

Well, my question is really rhetorical because your argument is just plain lame and highly overused as others already have noted, so let us just leave it at that

[egbert]

The video smells of "YOU-ARE-SO-IN-IF-YOU-BUY-A-SURFACE-TABLET", so let me specify the question for you: How come that people who want to be in buy and iPad and not a Surface, when they according to this vid certainly are part of the in-crowd if they do?

Just because MS makes an advert implying that "in" people use a Surface doesn't many anybody is buying that message. Most people watching TV can tell the difference between the program and the ads and will regard ads with some degree of skepticism. Camp followers look at what the "cool" people around them use and what the "cool" celebrities on film and TV are using and then follow their lead.

Apple has that product placement shit sown up and they have so many journalists shilling their stuff it is not funny. In my area there are still a couple of serious newspapers with IT sections. Each has a general PC commentator and a dedicated Mac guy. The Mac guy in each case is pure propaganda for Cupertino most of the time - he might bring up some pricing or support issue now and again but, mostly, he preaches to the converted.

The PC guys have, over the years, had much more skeptical attitudes to everything about MS and PCs. Eg - if they write about Ultrabooks, they might say - hey these are overpriced and don't have enough connectivity and aren't all that fast.

If the Mac guy writes about a similar spec Mac Air, it is all about how incredibly cool it is that is so thin and hardly weighs anything.

[fmr]

That is the question really - can you run low latency audio on a Surface Pro? I tried on an Asus Slate which runs Win 7 on dual core i5 hardware and it was no go - the DPC latency spikes were way too high. I tried disabling a few drivers but didn't manage to find a solution.

I can't see why not. Just buy a USB audio interface with ASIO drivers.
Remember that's a COMPUTER like any regular laptop you had before.

[miden]

The point being though FMR - CORE audio and midi is automatically running with iOS, no need to add water and cordial

Turn it on first time out of the box and you are ready to go - apps depending of course.

[fmr]

The point being though FMR - CORE audio and midi is automatically running with iOS, no need to add water and cordial

Turn it on first time out of the box and you are ready to go - apps depending of course.

I don't know what is running with iOS, nor do I care - the question was if it would be possible to have low latency audio in Surface Pro... which I answered I can't see why not!

[egbert]

That is the question really - can you run low latency audio on a Surface Pro? I tried on an Asus Slate which runs Win 7 on dual core i5 hardware and it was no go - the DPC latency spikes were way too high. I tried disabling a few drivers but didn't manage to find a solution.

I can't see why not. Just buy a USB audio interface with ASIO drivers.
Remember that's a COMPUTER like any regular laptop you had before.

The thing is, lots of laptops simply aren't any good for low latency audio. Their driver set/motherboard setup results in DPC spikes - eg 4 of 5 milliseconds in DPC latency checker. Read something like the RME forum where RME chief engineer's has commented on various Dell laptops he has tried out and how hopeless they were for this application.

[IncarnateX]

Just because MS makes an advert implying that "in" people use a Surface doesn't many anybody is buying that message..

No shit! But how come that customers according to the bling argument buy apple's messages and not Microsoft's messages? Come on, it is Microsoft! They are no underdogs in PR and propaganda but have their means and money just like apple. So why do people feel more "in" with apple than with Microsoft?

And the 50 billion downloads from the apple store? I guess these apps are really useless to people for other than being in-crowd, right?

People are not idiots but users and consumers. So, if the former is MS strategy in general, no wonder they failed. Ask instead what it is people consume and use on the iPad and why they rather would use it on a tablet/an iPad than a PC and MS might get wiser.

[egbert]

That is not my thesis at all. Apple's success has more than one cause. The fact that they were ahead of the game in desktop computers meant that creative types used them in publishing and music applications and in graphic design etc. They have persisted in those fields even when most if not all the main apps are cross platform and the hardware was faster or the same performance in PC land. The cachet that Apple have managed to connect with their high margin products has many parallels in other fields. Their success with the iProducts is quite remarkable. They have had a lead with useability in these portable products. Because they got their first - as they did with the Mac - they have had a lead with applications. They have many loyal followers who have invested time and money in the apps on their platform so they have some inertia working for them even as Android and possibly even Windows phones etc catch up and pass them in market share.

Read Paul Krugman's blog just today and see what he reckons on the security of Apple's positions on phones.