Which plugins add unwanted watermarks to audio?

[sqigls]

There's just something about their sound I don't like. I really did try to like ElectraX (their flagship?), but to me it sounds like an MP3

[Ghostwave]

Tone2 make synths and effects, they don't use samples.

but they use .wav files for the waveforms in their synths.
I've got 4 of them and I've never encountered a problem related to CP, soundwise or in my DAW.

[Teksonik]

Now that I think of it...is there any way to copy protect the music that is created with copy protected plugins ?

Thats where i think the problem is if watermarking becomes the norm.

So company buys the software i linked earlier. Users selling music online and also buys the software, and runs their music through it to protect it. Then lets say the music is on some internet radio, and they dont want their stuff being ripped and reposted, so they run their radio songs through the same software.

Theres a song with 3x watermarks? What if they use 10-20 different sample librarys all with their own watermarks? Eventually, its going to be audible, no? That link says, as with all tech, theres flaws, and theres cases where it will be audible, and thats just with 1 watermark.

I agree and as I said before....then what ? You pay a bunch of high price lawyers to go after some guy who is just selling a few copies of his song on the internet ?

How does a company find it's watermarks ? It has to buy....or ironically steal....every song released so they can run it through an analyzer to search for watermarks (back engineering isn't that against their own EULA's) ? There may be dozens of plugins in a song.......what if each one watermarks ? Like you say does it become audible at some point ? Do different company's WM conflict with each other effectively canceling each other out making it all pointless ?

No it just seems so inefficient and futile........

To me, watermarking is like having a sign for a burglar alarm company in your front yard. The sign itself does nothing to stop a burglar from breaking in to your house but maybe....just maybe...the thought that he would be more likely to be caught breaking into your house than the guy's next door who has no sign might deter him from trying...........

[Teksonik]

Tone2 make synths and effects, they don't use samples.

but they use .wav files for the waveforms in their synths.
I've got 4 of them and I've never encountered a problem related to CP, soundwise or in my DAW.

But for instance the waveforms for Firebird are not accessible except through the synth itself so the audio would have to be watermarked. I don't remember if the .wavs for Gladiator are separate or don't know if the .wavs for any of their newer synths are accessible outside the plugin (in a folder in the installed files).

[Ghostwave]

I don't remember if the .wavs for Gladiator are separate or don't know if the .wavs for any of their newer synths are accessible outside the plugin (in a folder in the installed files).

For RayBlaster, you can and for ElectraX, only the wavetables.

[aMUSEd]

Now that I think of it...is there any way to copy protect the music that is created with copy protected plugins ?

Thats where i think the problem is if watermarking becomes the norm.

So company buys the software i linked earlier. Users selling music online and also buys the software, and runs their music through it to protect it. Then lets say the music is on some internet radio, and they dont want their stuff being ripped and reposted, so they run their radio songs through the same software.

Theres a song with 3x watermarks? What if they use 10-20 different sample librarys all with their own watermarks? Eventually, its going to be audible, no? That link says, as with all tech, theres flaws, and theres cases where it will be audible, and thats just with 1 watermark.

I agree and as I said before....then what ? You pay a bunch of high price lawyers to go after some guy who is just selling a few copies of his song on the internet ?

How does a company find it's watermarks ? It has to buy....or ironically steal....every song released so they can run it through an analyzer to search for watermarks (back engineering isn't that against their own EULA's) ? There may be dozens of plugins in a song.......what if each one watermarks ? Like you say does it become audible at some point ? Do different company's WM conflict with each other effectively canceling each other out making it all pointless ?

No it just seems so inefficient and futile........

To me, watermarking is like having a sign for a burglar alarm company in your front yard. The sign itself does nothing to stop a burglar from breaking in to your house but maybe....just maybe...the thought that he would be more likely to be caught breaking into your house than the guy's next door who has no sign might deter him from trying...........

Yeah I thought even the ones that use wavs initially converted them into some proprietary format (possibly using something like additive resynthesis - isn't that what the HCM thing was supposed to be about?). So they wouldn't need to protect those. From my memory of what they implied about watermarking it seemed more to be about the audio output of the synths than any wav files the presets stated with.

[flakes2]

we should rename this thread which might soon be closed to

"which plugins can i pirate and on which ones should i watch out?".
or
"poor paranoid pirates peeing their pants"
or
"just another shitstorm from the same pissed-off thieves"

If you care so much about privacy, why:
- do you post in a public forum?
- use google?
- use facebook?
- use a cellphone?

The NSA is watching you... make sure that you take a look under your bed before you go to sleep! :-o

[fluffy_little_something]

we should rename this thread which might soon be closed to

"which plugins can i pirate and on which ones should i watch out?".
or
"poor paranoid pirates peeing their pants"
or
"just another shitstorm from the same pissed-off thieves"

If you care so much about privacy, why:
- do you post in a public forum?
- use google?
- use facebook?
- use a cellphone?

The NSA is watching you... make sure that you take a look under your bed before you go to sleep!

That is nonsense. I don't care whether a company watermarks its software as such, I just don't want anything of it in MY MUSIC.
I don't pirate software, I even donate for donationware...

All I am asking for is transparency. If someone does not like watermarking audio, they should know which plugins do that so that they can avoid it and pick another one instead.

Actually, we could turn this into a negative list, i.e. all developers who can guarantee they don't watermark audio should say so here.

[Numanoid]

"poor paranoid pirates peeing their pants"

Has Tone2 ever nicked somebody by the watermark?

Maybe this album?:

[bluedad]

No you won't.........But don't worry oh mighty defenders of Tone 2. As you've already pointed out whenever Tone 2 feels threatened the Mods will be along in no time to Lock/Delete the thread......just be patient.

We don't move or lock Tone 2 threads to defend them; only because they tend to get out of hand and we're just tired of the f**king bs!

Have you ever wondered why one company's threads "get out of hand" while the vast majority of other company's threads don't ? Could it be the behavior of the company itself and not the behavior of the KVR members at fault ? Certainly Cause/Effect plays a part. Again when was the last time a UHE thread got out of hand or Linplug ? (just as examples)

Tone2 do not have at forum at kvr and generally don't bother posting here either. I'm only interested in what goes on at kvr; and you accused the mods here of protecting Tone2 which is absolutely absurd. Trust me, we don't get paid, no perks or benefits whatsoever and STILL get shit on by members so there is no reason to protect any company whatsoever.

[xNiMiNx]

Yeah I thought even the ones that use wavs initially converted them into some proprietary format (possibly using something like additive resynthesis - isn't that what the HCM thing was supposed to be about?). So they wouldn't need to protect those. From my memory of what they implied about watermarking it seemed more to be about the audio output of the synths than any wav files the presets stated with.

Again, check that link i posted (page 2?), im sure watermarking methods differ, but that one says all you need to do is run a wave file through their software, then you are free to convert to mp3, lower bitrate, transfer over radio waves, add effects, band passes, etc, and the watermark is intact.

Id be curious if anyone owns a lot of embertone (listed as a user on the link) libraries, did you have issues with strange sounds appearing when using them all together in one project? Did you spend more time mastering for unknown reasons?

PS. Digging the people crying wolf, trying hard to get the thread closed.

[flakes2]

Why do you make your life so difficult and just ban some trolls instead of locking topics?

[xNiMiNx]

Why do you make your life so difficult and just ban some trolls instead of locking topics?

Why are you making accusations of piracy? Maybe this thread can be helpful to devs around here who WANT to watermark their stuff?

AWT1 ATW2 ATW2DL ATW3 seem like great products for watermarking.

[rcat]

I just finished a CD that was so bad I pissed on it. Does that qualify as watermarking?

[nineofkings]

I don't understand the big deal about this. It's not affecting your music. More severe manipulations of audio are a routine part of "analog modeling" plugins and the like. Who cares whether or not some stupid phase shift or something identifies a particular synth? If you can't hear it and it doesn't hurt anything, it isn't affecting your music. It's the hypochondriac worrying that affects your music more than any watermark.