Surface 2013: good bye iPad?

[IncarnateX]

That is not my thesis at all.

I know, that was VariKusBrainz' argument but you seemed to defend it when claiming that MS is underdogs to apple in PR.

[miden]

The point being though FMR - CORE audio and midi is automatically running with iOS, no need to add water and cordial

Turn it on first time out of the box and you are ready to go - apps depending of course.

I don't know what is running with iOS, nor do I care - the question was if it would be possible to have low latency audio in Surface Pro... which I answered I can't see why not!

Exactly - that is what I am saying. One CAN have low latency audio with a surface pro, but you need to buy a decent USB2 interface (no firewire on the Pro), and USB to mini USB adaptor, then ensure the ASIO drivers are correct and updated - then you can look at tweaking settings to get a - good noises/pops/clicks TO acceptable latency trade-off - happening.

With the iPad take it out of the box add a music app and off you go, nothing more to do (albeit with a midi input - in my case the Griffin MidiConnect). I use a Windows desktop DAW for my main work in the studio, so I cannot comment on how a Mac does it, but from what I have read, similar core audio/midi capability is built into OSX as well...others may want to confirm this.

Microsoft STILL have the ridiculous 10 midi device limit (and yes even in windows 8 ).

No, for portable audio without fuss and bother, iOS is the way to go imo.

[fmr]

That is the question really - can you run low latency audio on a Surface Pro? I tried on an Asus Slate which runs Win 7 on dual core i5 hardware and it was no go - the DPC latency spikes were way too high. I tried disabling a few drivers but didn't manage to find a solution.

I can't see why not. Just buy a USB audio interface with ASIO drivers.
Remember that's a COMPUTER like any regular laptop you had before.

The thing is, lots of laptops simply aren't any good for low latency audio. Their driver set/motherboard setup results in DPC spikes - eg 4 of 5 milliseconds in DPC latency checker. Read something like the RME forum where RME chief engineer's has commented on various Dell laptops he has tried out and how hopeless they were for this application.

I see. Is that also an issue with Surface Pro?

[egbert]

I don't know - that is why I was asking. If anyone has tried it with a decent ASIO driver like RME it would be useful to know what the low latency performance was like.

[egbert]

Here is Paul Krugman's bit on MS/Apple an their current situation vs their earlier relationship.

[egbert]

Some info on new Surface Pro and Surface models.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Apple is a brand, people associate themselves to a brand.
PC is not a brand, its a type of open ended hardware offering more versatility than a closed platform.

[cron]

I don't really get how Surface Pro is supposed to compete with the good old laptop. I assume you'd only choose the Pro model over the standard if you wanted access to the desktop and your standard PC applications, at which point you get none of the things that are good about tablet products but all of the bullshit that comes with them.

[IncarnateX]

Apple is a brand, people associate themselves to a brand.
PC is not a brand, its a type of open ended hardware offering more versatility than a closed platform.

You are making a categorial mistake. It is not PC versus Apple but PC versus Mac. Likewise it is Microsoft versus Apple and they are both brands, not just one of them.

[hueynym]

Just to chime in from the Financial Markets (this morning's article)

"Last quarter, Microsoft took a $900 million writedown on the Surface. Microsoft admitted that its tablet had not sold as well as expected, and that it was forced to cut the price by 30% in order to boost demand. It also noted that among consumers, demand for traditional PCs had fallen roughly 20%."

[fmr]

Apple is a brand, people associate themselves to a brand.
PC is not a brand, its a type of open ended hardware offering more versatility than a closed platform.

You are making a categorial mistake. It is not PC versus Apple but PC versus Mac. Likewise it is Microsoft versus Apple and they are both brands, not just one of them.

Actually, it's no longer PC vs Mac, but Laptop vs Macbook, ultrabooks vs. Macbook Air, iMac vs "whatever they call it" and Mac Pro vs Desktop PCs. In the tablet arena, I agree that, right now, WQindows is not competing, but the hybrids that are coming to the market bulti by Asus, Toshiba, Samsung and others may create a new category (kind of lapblets) that will fall between the tablets and the laptops/ultrabooks. We are living in a time of changing paradigms, and I am convinced that the tablet is just a fashion gadget that is paving the way for something else more useful and versatile.

[ericj23]

amen

Will tablets replace laptops for business use - not without extra bits. It is useless for business without a keyboard and unless speech recognition improves massively we are sticking with keyboards.

So a tablet with a keyboard stand is possibly the way to go - and of course x86 means compatibility with lots more devices that i devices will ever know

So I think if microsoft concentrate on surface pro they might have a winner

Yes it is just a laptop, but you can separate the screen and use it for other purposes

I actually think the real problem for apple/microsoft are smart TVs. Domestic computing for most revolves around a handful of internet services. My current sony can get iplayer/spotify etc - it also has a browser. And I can control it with my smartphone. So if I want a big screen for online shopping it is 46 inch across.

The bottom line is TVs are not going away anytime soon and as computation becomes cheaper they will add more smartfeatures that are slicker - and there is nothing much apple or microsoft can do to to compete with that

I think over time more and more people will use their telly for basic computing purposes

[IncarnateX]

Whatever. I just want the oracles to give me an exact date for the death of the iPad, so I can sell mine to some fool the day before.
So what's it gonna be?

[hueynym]

Apple is a brand, people associate themselves to a brand.
PC is not a brand, its a type of open ended hardware offering more versatility than a closed platform.

You are making a categorial mistake. It is not PC versus Apple but PC versus Mac. Likewise it is Microsoft versus Apple and they are both brands, not just one of them.

Actually, it's no longer PC vs Mac, but Laptop vs Macbook, ultrabooks vs. Macbook Air, iMac vs "whatever they call it" and Mac Pro vs Desktop PCs. In the tablet arena, I agree that, right now, WQindows is not competing, but the hybrids that are coming to the market bulti by Asus, Toshiba, Samsung and others may create a new category (kind of lapblets) that will fall between the tablets and the laptops/ultrabooks. We are living in a time of changing paradigms, and I am convinced that the tablet is just a fashion gadget that is paving the way for something else more useful and versatile.

As long as the hardware will be running the same core of Microsoft's Windows, it will have the same issues they have always had. Without a dedicated subsystem for processing audio internally, the music (or your sanity) will pay the price.

I also am convinced that the tablet is just a fashion gadget that is paving the way for something else more useful and versatile - in the same way that I'm convinced that automobiles are just fashion gadgets that are paving the way for jetpacks and solar powered hovercrafts. It just depends on how long you're willing to wait.

[ericj23]

Whatever. I just want the oracles to give me an exact date for the death of the iPad, so I can sell mine to some fool the day before.
So what's it gonna be?

The battery will die before the cache that comes with owning an outsized smartphone disappears - so the most effective way to some money back is to sell it now