How to get more sustain out of an Amp Sim?

[Teksonik]

I gave my Johnson to a student 10 years ago, but i remember a very good clean sound maybe made with a clever internal compression setting, much better than the pod, but the ampsimulation was always very thin sounding ( sounds like a raped bumblebee someone said).

Like I said several post ago it's a matter of personal taste but the J Station's Rectified sound is quite good to me.......plenty of attitude, balls and yes....sustain.........

In my opinion the interaction between strings and loudspeakers is very important for a good sustain, one of the reasons why guitarplayers like to play loud. This is hard to simulate because it is not a constant factor someone told me.

Same guitar....same strings...same loudspeakers...same player....not the same sustain with vst amp sims even with a compressor......

Ok let's try this....I have Ampiltube Metal and TRacks...can someone post a patch using the modules in both of those to create a Rectified Distortion sound with good Sustain ? I can't....maybe it's my fault...maybe not....

[lfm]

...can someone post a patch using the modules in both of those to create a Rectified Distortion sound with good Sustain ? I can't....maybe it's my fault...maybe not....

#1. There are a number of guitar pedals that has a hold function - some with a whammy bar pedal behind it to make dive bombs or whatever. This hold would work as a loop pedal with automatic loop point for sustain for ever if you want.

I didn't quite get what you wrote before - you don't play the guitar but you use a DI box - which to me would suggest that you do play the guitar through a dibox into computer?


#2. Next thing one could try is arrange you monitor from computer to be right in front of guitar - and just loud enough to create feedback or close enough to make tone sustain. It will very quickly add to length of tone anyway.

Maybe a headphone cap even would do it - if arranged in the right way.

#3. Yet another things would be the eBow - which keeps you strings vibrating for you just about as long as you like.

But maybe I just didn't get how you go about this.

[Teksonik]

I didn't quite get what you wrote before - you don't play the guitar but you use a DI box - which to me would suggest that you do play the guitar through a dibox into computer?

What ? I don't play guitar but I do play guitar ? You're confusing me with the OP:

I do want to point out that I am NOT playing a real guitar, but actually using a DI recording.

He needs help with adding sustain to a recording...I do not.

Let me go over things again since apparently there is some confusion..I don't need help creating sustain. I'm getting sweet lovely sustain with my J Station......no...problem. The issue is I can not get that same sustain with vst amp sims like Amplitube, Guitar Rig Kuassa etc etc......

It's not about speaker placement...or the guitar...or the strings...or the player...or....all factors are the same in both cases. I simply issued a challenge for anybody to create a patch using AT 3 Metal that has the same sustain with a Rectified amp sim.......

I've already got the sound I want with the J Station......it's more pure curiosity to see if the same sound can be done with vst amp sims.

[lfm]

I didn't quite get what you wrote before - you don't play the guitar but you use a DI box - which to me would suggest that you do play the guitar through a dibox into computer?

What ? I don't play guitar but I do play guitar ? You're confusing me with the OP:

My bad - yes, I thought you were OP.

[kvaca]

Let me go over things again since apparently there is some confusion..I don't need help creating sustain. I'm getting sweet lovely sustain with my J Station......no...problem. The issue is I can not get that same sustain with vst amp sims like Amplitube, Guitar Rig Kuassa etc etc......

It's not about speaker placement...or the guitar...or the strings...or the player...or....all factors are the same in both cases. I simply issued a challenge for anybody to create a patch using AT 3 Metal that has the same sustain with a Rectified amp sim.......

I've already got the sound I want with the J Station......it's more pure curiosity to see if the same sound can be done with vst amp sims.

no matter how long sustain it has to me J Station still sounds like broken tube amp with badly biased output tubes compared to AT or S-Gear but if you are so happy with it then please continue using it and be happy but dont expect me doing some patches for you because I have as long sustain as I ever need but not only because of heavily overdriven amp or ampsim - but because my guitar delivers it...even with low volume on my amp and without any compressor or other stompboxes...

[Teksonik]

no matter how long sustain it has to me J Station still sounds like broken tube amp with badly biased output tubes compared to AT

AT sounds like crap to me compared to the J Station so you see it's all subjective. If you like AT please feel free to continue using it and be happy.....Nothing in AT Metal sounds anywhere near as good as the Rectified sound in the J Station...to me.

but dont expect me doing some patches for you because

Because......you can't ?

but because my guitar delivers it....

Are you missing the point that I'm getting fantastic sustain with my guitar with the J Station ?

Is this too complicated ? Pretty simple concept. Ok one more time...Same guitar, same speakers, same strings, same player = Great Sustain in the J Station and No Sustain in VST Amp Sims. Prove me wrong.......post a patch

[kvaca]

Are you missing the point that I'm getting fantastic sustain with my guitar with the J Station ?

are you missing the point that Im getting fantastic sustain with my guitar with any amp or ampsim on earth?

[Tubeman]

I simply issued a challenge for anybody to create a patch using AT 3 Metal that has the same sustain with a Rectified amp sim.......

Impossible. We are not mind readers. You are asking for the same sustain as the J-Station, yet you refuse to post a sound example of it so we would have an idea what you mean...

[Teksonik]

Are you missing the point that I'm getting fantastic sustain with my guitar with the J Station ?

are you missing the point that Im getting fantastic sustain with my guitar with any amp or ampsim on earth?

Are you missing the point that all I'm asking is to prove it ? Post a patch. I'd love to be proven wrong. I've never been able to get any sustain out of AT Metal...enlighten me as to the magic secrets you have discovered...and no it's not my guitar...like I said a dozen times now I'm getting wonderful sustain with the J Station so if all other factors are the same...once again...same guitar, same strings, same speakers etc etc and the only difference is between the J Station hardware based amp sim and vst amp sims it comes down to either I'm doing something wrong or it's just not possible using Amplitube.....prove to me it's the former and not the latter........pretty simple

[Teksonik]

I simply issued a challenge for anybody to create a patch using AT 3 Metal that has the same sustain with a Rectified amp sim.......

Impossible. We are not mind readers. You are asking for the same sustain as the J-Station, yet you refuse to post a sound example of it so we would have an idea what you mean...

Oh for God's sake if you don't know what sustain is then go find a thread where you do have a working knowledge of the subject.....

[lfm]

Are you missing the point that I'm getting fantastic sustain with my guitar with the J Station ?

My guess is like this:

J-Station is built for guitars.

And entry stage amp has automatic level control and work in analog domain - meaning the dynamics it can deliver is much higher level, even once tone from guitar goes down real low. So some kind of automatic gain control - handling anything from single coils to humbuckers.

When we work in digital domain we are so used to working with almost full level - most probably above -20dB or so.

So in digital domain you probably work with 20dB dynamics.

J-Station probably handle 40-50dB or so of the signal from guitar.

You should be able to mimic this with a leveling amplifier like CLA-2A or similar or as I put it to OP earlier in this thread - use a limiter with long release times. Set threshold really low - down to -40dB-> -50dB or so.

This is my suggestion.


Your dynamics in playing will be zero - but since you asked for sustain above anything else that is what you get.

[Teksonik]

To the OP...I'm so sorry I didn't mean to hijack your thread. In a way what I'm asking does apply to your question though. But as I said before to me sustain isn't something that you can slap on top of an audio file it must be "played". Just like you wouldn't get the same results playing a guitar part clean and then running it through a distortion effect....you "play" the distortion as part of the performance. Just my opinion and way of thinking of course.....

[Teksonik]

Are you missing the point that I'm getting fantastic sustain with my guitar with the J Station ?

My guess is like this:
J-Station is built for guitars.
And entry stage amp has automatic level control and work in analog domain - meaning the dynamics it can deliver is much higher level, even once tone from guitar goes down real low. So some kind of automatic gain control - handling anything from single coils to humbuckers.
When we work in digital domain we are so used to working with almost full level - most probably above -20dB or so.
So in digital domain you probably work with 20dB dynamics.
J-Station probably handle 40-50dB or so of the signal from guitar.
You should be able to mimic this with a leveling amplifier like CLA-2A or similar or as I put it to OP earlier in this thread - use a limiter with long release times. Set threshold really low - down to -40dB-> -50dB or so.
This is my suggestion.

The problem with all that is I have also run my guitar through the J Station clean and then into a vst amp sim with the same results. I've tried every combination of compressors, limiters, channel strips etc etc that are in my software arsenal....same results. How does your guitar signal make it in to your computer ?
You said you get sustain with AT3....please post that patch. If needed I can demo any of the amps or other modules that I don't already own thru the Custom Shop.

Your dynamics in playing will be zero - but since you asked for sustain above anything else that is what you get.

So I guess the answer is you can't get the same sound in AT3 as you can with the J Station...that's ok though...I've already got the sound I want so AT will continue to be relegated to Bass Amp duties.......

EDIT: Just for the record you'll notice that I never said the the J Station is the only place I've ever gotten sustain with my guitar....just that I've never got it with AT (or any other other vst plugins I've tried).

[kvaca]

I've never been able to get any sustain out of AT Metal...enlighten me as to the magic secrets you have discovered...and no it's not my guitar...

we are moving in circles.. yes,it IS your guitar which primarily creates sustain
so again for you - hint: get fernandez /or similarly equipped/ guitar > switch sustainer on > enjoy infinite sustain with Amplitube metal /any patch.../

again sorry...this was my last off topic post

[Teksonik]

I've never been able to get any sustain out of AT Metal...enlighten me as to the magic secrets you have discovered...and no it's not my guitar...

we are moving in circles.. yes,it IS your guitar which primarily creates sustain
hint for you: get fernandez guitar > switch sustainer on > enjoy infinite sustain with Amplitube metal /any patch.../

It is only you who are chasing your tail my friend.....do you not understand that I AM GETTING SUSTAIN WITH MY GUITAR ? See my edit above.....and also for the record I don't need infinite 30 second sustain.........