Time for a virtual modular standard...?

[whyterabbyt]

Ubuntu, Google Chrome, mu torrent, OpenOffice, Jeskola Buzz, Tyrell N6, etc, etc, etc.

Those may have a low (zero) price, but not necessarily a low cost.

its pretty clear that the context of this part of the conversation is price, though.

:edited to fix attribution issue

[whyterabbyt]

but the idea of inexpensive modular components is very cool.

you get what you pay for...

if you want a cheap software modular, its going to sound cheap

False. The cost of software is dependent on a lot of things, but the quality of software is utterly independent of its final cost.

It usually isnt.

Ubuntu, Google Chrome, mu torrent, OpenOffice, Jeskola Buzz, Tyrell N6, etc, etc, etc.

Whats your point....cheap/free is good?

Having difficulty keeping up, or just throwing in a straw man? You made the claim it was intrinsically inferior. Refuting that is not the same as claiming it is intrinsically superior.

Again; the quality of software is utterly independent of its final cost.

[Lotuzia]

Bla.

More bla
.

Basically, this is my feeling that you did not understand a single line of what I said. Maybe I wasn't clear and precise enough. Or maybe its something else, from your side.

Anyway, reading your pointillist and patronizing comments, I would not change a line. I'm 101% sure what the OP wants will never happen in the real world, if only for the reasons I exposed, wich imho are common sense answers. YMMV ( as always ...... )

As it seems that you took a lot of time to deconstruct my post and slice it in meaningless cuts, and answer it, I will just leave it like this, thanking you for your effort.

[whyterabbyt]

but the idea of inexpensive modular components is very cool.

you get what you pay for...

if you want a cheap software modular, its going to sound cheap

False. The cost of software is dependent on a lot of things, but the quality of software is utterly independent of its final cost.

It usually isnt.

Lets see your statistics on that, then.

What statistics? Where did i mention statistics?

So you're making an assertion about what is 'usually' the case without any kind of statistics to back that up? Guess we can discount what you said completely then.

[whyterabbyt]

Bla.

More bla
.

Basically, this is my feeling that you did not understand a single line of what I said.

Well, that's only fair, since it was my feeling that what you said was a reflection of you not understanding a word of what the OP said, or what he was looking for.

[hakey]

deconstruct my post and slice it in meaningless cuts

If only there were some way to go back and read the original post...

[xalama qo]

deconstruct my post and slice it in meaningless cuts

If only there were some way to go back and read the original post...

LOL!

[xalama qo]

Looks like Krim went to bed. That's a good boy.

what are you rolling you eyes at? your guess as to my whereabouts or your little dig?

what a fucktard

Why would I roll my eyes at my own little dig?

I really did think you'd gone to bed, really. Interacting online like a little boy, calling people names. You mean you're not 9 years old?
My apologies sir, and I'll refrain from rolling my eyes... oops, sorry, I did it again.

[Kriminal]

you get what you pay for...

if you want a cheap software modular, its going to sound cheap

False. The cost of software is dependent on a lot of things, but the quality of software is utterly independent of its final cost.

It usually isnt.

Lets see your statistics on that, then.

What statistics? Where did i mention statistics?

So you're making an assertion about what is 'usually' the case without any kind of statistics to back that up? Guess we can discount what you said completely then.

Its based on experience.

[Kriminal]

Looks like Krim went to bed. That's a good boy.

what are you rolling you eyes at? your guess as to my whereabouts or your little dig?

what a fucktard

Why would I roll my eyes at my own little dig?

I really did think you'd gone to bed, really. Interacting online like a little boy, calling people names. You mean you're not 9 years old?
My apologies sir, and I'll refrain from rolling my eyes... oops, sorry, I did it again.

You got upset cos i called you a snob.... so you big comeback was saying i had gone to bed and calling me boy...

Who's childish?

Fuckin prick....

[chk071]

Ubuntu, Google Chrome, mu torrent, OpenOffice, Jeskola Buzz, Tyrell N6, etc, etc, etc.

Those may have a low (zero) price, but not necessarily a low cost.

Exactly. Chrome is an advertising product (damn good browser though), Tyrell N6 is more or less an advertising/marketing product too. Ubuntu implements more and more stuff from business partners, with OpenOffice you get paid support. It's not always what it seems it is. I think generally "You get what you pay for" is not so wrong. Many free plugins don't have 1/10 of the functionality nowadays payware has.

[sin night]

Except that VST plugins throughput on a block-by-block basis, not on a sample-by-sample basis.

But... isn't the block size controlled by the host? I mean: the plugin algorithms should regardless of the block size, which could be just 1 sample (at least in theory). I don't know how this could affect the performances, though (maybe they get worse)!
Maybe I'm just naive on the subject, I have never developed a vst...




I think the vst standard could be enhanced to support some modular features, we already have an additional audio input on vst3 (sidechain), now I'd just like to see some modulation input and outputs and a patchbay on the host (with standard APIs so you could setup some standard patching directly from any plugin and so on)... Maybe plugins could output those modulations as vst automation (like the Blue Cat Audio's analysis plugins), then there could be a patchbay to link those to the automation input of other plugins (right now, at least in Cubase, you could have a plugin draw an automation curve, which you could then copy and paste on another automation parameter, so it just lacks a way to route the automation in realtime).

The block processing is a problem if we want feedback loops, otherwise I imagine it could be done (I hope really long chaines don't affect latency, though!).


Some modular features could be really interesting in my view, but I'm a little bit afraid of the new problems they could bring...

[whyterabbyt]

So you're making an assertion about what is 'usually' the case without any kind of statistics to back that up? Guess we can discount what you said completely then.

Its based on experience.

Fairly limited experience then.

[xalama qo]

To all the rest of y'all who haven't gone to bed yet, interesting discussion/debate! I like it

I'd like to add that just because something has been done before doesn't mean that it can't be done better. Some of you clearly understand that as a fact of life, others will firmly oppose until death or proven otherwise.

Imagine Steve Jobs saying "Crap, the computer has been invented and is and always will be what it is now. And that cell phone market looks inviting, but it's saturated, no room for anything new there."
Or Richard Branson "I think I'd like a private jet...nope, actually, I think I'll start an airline company"


There's ALWAYS room for something new, even if it's the same old thing, just different. MS-20 mini anyone? nah, no-one would buy that...

Free software?...that'll never happen! Free software that is better than commercial software?...paleez!

You get my drift.

[whyterabbyt]

But... isn't the block size controlled by the host? I mean: the plugin algorithms should regardless of the block size, which could be just 1 sample (at least in theory). I don't know how this could affect the performances, though (maybe they get worse)!
Maybe I'm just naive on the subject, I have never developed a vst...

Yeah, it should be controlled by the host, AFAIR, but doesnt go that low. However if you're using a block size of 1 sample, all your block-level handling code is redundant. I believe there are assumptions about block processing that go with it that I think might break too. I could be wrong on that.

Some modular features could be really interesting in my view, but I'm a little bit afraid of the new problems they could bring...

Im sure there are, but it'd be nice to have the option. One of the things I like about hosts like Bidule is that you dont have to treat automation as a 'separate' fixed thing from audio, you can route it freely and even process it.