if you spend three months designing something, you have a good idea in your mind of the parameter layout. if you're not prepared to do this, try mapping the gui out.
i think we're on a new page so repost:
bong vst
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- Banned
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- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
i'd say i don't care about the gui, but we here at xoxoscorp et c. et c.
if you spend three months designing something, you have a good idea in your mind of the parameter layout. if you're not prepared to do this, try mapping the gui out.
i think we're on a new page so repost:
if you spend three months designing something, you have a good idea in your mind of the parameter layout. if you're not prepared to do this, try mapping the gui out.
i think we're on a new page so repost:
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRAF
- 3506 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England
YES!xoxos wrote:
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- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
developer's blog.. stuff you don't need to know.
wow, three months. the only other projects that have taken three months were algorithmic.
after three months of BANG observe adjust BANG repeat there comes the moment when you load the item into a host. same deal as usual, after those three months of BANG it's time to patch, i've been hearing these sounds constantly and now i'm supposed to discretise between settings..
and, as usual, after a minute or so this weight is replaced by some appreciation for having made it. isn't that surprising.
thought there was a bug in the tambourine (= shaker alternate mode) alg, turned out it was clicking because it was clipping. high resonance on high frequencies = amplitude.
the clap is the only voice that has no algorithm modes, the params are set wide (the "trigger" param adjusts the trigger timing sequence.. eg. dr110 is about an even 10-11ms between each, 909s are often ~7/12/11.. different positions on the dial cover the 808s, 909 and 110 claps i looked at thanks to a funky curve. it does it all! ha). the "hall" has a fixed attack rate ~40ms and variable decay.. this works with most settings, but in use i found the attack sounded like it was lagging, so will adjust the attack rate to be faster when it's more observable.
full review:
love the kicks, 8 algos all awesome, wish the snares had more params, consider the clap "quite good" but i think the wide parameterisation leads to situations where i want more tonal refinement (i wasn't thinking about post-processing when observing this, and that is going to be the end-user modus). toms have 5 flavours of simple and 2 flavours of "improved", which is 7 algorithms, probably 6 more than you normally get. but as a user i wanted more.. some timbres in between the simple and complex.. or more tonal control. but, you don't get that on toms on these boxes. it's a "as soon as i got this i wanted this as well" situation.
hats.. i think people will agree that the algorithm and resultant timbre is authentic, perhaps enough for ppl to believe they are hearing a specific machine. in A/B comparison, what's here is entirely new classic tones :p it does not match the specific frequencies of any machine. the cymbal gets its own out assign because in most cases it will need post to get the right tone (as eg. 808s don't let you adjust the resonance of the cymbal lower bandpass, so a bit of eq after the Q for level to taste). i wonder how owners of other analogs (i only have dr110) will find the filter
give it oscillators it has toooone, adding a slight bit of noise will then add sparkle. more noise and you're hitting a box of cornflakes.
the shaker is about the same as a PhISEM model.. "gain" and "rate" are "granular" params for the algo. the second trigger is a backsweep kinda deal and probably won't sound good if the notes aren't pulled forward some. you don't need more shaker than this. rim was supposed to be like the shaker, but i'm finding each of the algorithms too distinct to sound really different with setting adjustments. then again, i haven't tried using it with velocity, which may result in more PhISEM-like timbre. i remind myself that it's more analog box oriented than physical modeling.
so that's the fun.. i have one of those superflat edirol controllers but somewhere in an airport the keyboard got messed up, i think like three keys work and only one responds to velocity, so there won't be an abundance of timbres patched for velocity.
the snare noise filter is very widely ranged.. (wish it has q and more filters and more knobs and and andandand) eg. you can put the cutoff around 1k which doesn't sound like any classic, but can sound a bit acoustic with the oscillator set low. since these params have velocity sensitivity (hint: use them selectively, don't use them all at once.. making a few params velo sensitive can create a fairly fun "mini acoustic model" imo, since of course the primitive analogs are still elementary acoustic emus) there should be a novel range of sounds in there.
chucked it in the sequencer for a minute late last night. again, i'm not trying to encourage perception as an emulator of anything.. happy with how 909ish it can sound, especially the toms as solo'ed they sound very different, but in use the feel is reminiscent. the noise algorithm for 606/808 snares is rough (as in hard to do, not unrefined) - dr110 and 909 use digital noise, and because i usually hear 606/808 via samples, the sound of continuous variation from these two machines (known to me via gian of ploy a feeew years ago) so these snares may sound different. the noise algorithm (observed in samples) is prone to "long" gaps which make the snappy sound a bit scrappy and loose, not sure if my scrappy and loose is similar.
going to leave off the specific associations between models and machines
i am going to take my sweet time to patch and accoutre the product, could be a few weeks, i prefer to do things well and would like to slew off some aural fatigue before patching. if you are a brave ass dupe, you can acquire it early for $25 or $15 returning customer (donation with note). or message if you are a vst professional who would like a copy early for appropriate purposes (eg. not as in getting my new piece of shit for free). i won't be sending out to beta testers (ty for offers guys ) for a few more days so hold tight, you cool.
wow, three months. the only other projects that have taken three months were algorithmic.
after three months of BANG observe adjust BANG repeat there comes the moment when you load the item into a host. same deal as usual, after those three months of BANG it's time to patch, i've been hearing these sounds constantly and now i'm supposed to discretise between settings..
and, as usual, after a minute or so this weight is replaced by some appreciation for having made it. isn't that surprising.thought there was a bug in the tambourine (= shaker alternate mode) alg, turned out it was clicking because it was clipping. high resonance on high frequencies = amplitude.
the clap is the only voice that has no algorithm modes, the params are set wide (the "trigger" param adjusts the trigger timing sequence.. eg. dr110 is about an even 10-11ms between each, 909s are often ~7/12/11.. different positions on the dial cover the 808s, 909 and 110 claps i looked at thanks to a funky curve. it does it all! ha). the "hall" has a fixed attack rate ~40ms and variable decay.. this works with most settings, but in use i found the attack sounded like it was lagging, so will adjust the attack rate to be faster when it's more observable.
full review:
love the kicks, 8 algos all awesome, wish the snares had more params, consider the clap "quite good" but i think the wide parameterisation leads to situations where i want more tonal refinement (i wasn't thinking about post-processing when observing this, and that is going to be the end-user modus). toms have 5 flavours of simple and 2 flavours of "improved", which is 7 algorithms, probably 6 more than you normally get. but as a user i wanted more.. some timbres in between the simple and complex.. or more tonal control. but, you don't get that on toms on these boxes. it's a "as soon as i got this i wanted this as well" situation.
hats.. i think people will agree that the algorithm and resultant timbre is authentic, perhaps enough for ppl to believe they are hearing a specific machine. in A/B comparison, what's here is entirely new classic tones :p it does not match the specific frequencies of any machine. the cymbal gets its own out assign because in most cases it will need post to get the right tone (as eg. 808s don't let you adjust the resonance of the cymbal lower bandpass, so a bit of eq after the Q for level to taste). i wonder how owners of other analogs (i only have dr110) will find the filter
give it oscillators it has toooone, adding a slight bit of noise will then add sparkle. more noise and you're hitting a box of cornflakes.the shaker is about the same as a PhISEM model.. "gain" and "rate" are "granular" params for the algo. the second trigger is a backsweep kinda deal and probably won't sound good if the notes aren't pulled forward some. you don't need more shaker than this. rim was supposed to be like the shaker, but i'm finding each of the algorithms too distinct to sound really different with setting adjustments. then again, i haven't tried using it with velocity, which may result in more PhISEM-like timbre. i remind myself that it's more analog box oriented than physical modeling.
so that's the fun.. i have one of those superflat edirol controllers but somewhere in an airport the keyboard got messed up, i think like three keys work and only one responds to velocity, so there won't be an abundance of timbres patched for velocity.
the snare noise filter is very widely ranged.. (wish it has q and more filters and more knobs and and andandand) eg. you can put the cutoff around 1k which doesn't sound like any classic, but can sound a bit acoustic with the oscillator set low. since these params have velocity sensitivity (hint: use them selectively, don't use them all at once.. making a few params velo sensitive can create a fairly fun "mini acoustic model" imo, since of course the primitive analogs are still elementary acoustic emus) there should be a novel range of sounds in there.
chucked it in the sequencer for a minute late last night. again, i'm not trying to encourage perception as an emulator of anything.. happy with how 909ish it can sound, especially the toms as solo'ed they sound very different, but in use the feel is reminiscent. the noise algorithm for 606/808 snares is rough (as in hard to do, not unrefined) - dr110 and 909 use digital noise, and because i usually hear 606/808 via samples, the sound of continuous variation from these two machines (known to me via gian of ploy a feeew years ago) so these snares may sound different. the noise algorithm (observed in samples) is prone to "long" gaps which make the snappy sound a bit scrappy and loose, not sure if my scrappy and loose is similar.
going to leave off the specific associations between models and machines
i am going to take my sweet time to patch and accoutre the product, could be a few weeks, i prefer to do things well and would like to slew off some aural fatigue before patching. if you are a brave ass dupe, you can acquire it early for $25 or $15 returning customer (donation with note). or message if you are a vst professional who would like a copy early for appropriate purposes (eg. not as in getting my new piece of shit for free). i won't be sending out to beta testers (ty for offers guys
) for a few more days so hold tight, you cool.you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRAF
- 3506 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England
Congratulations on hitting the milestone. Just got my pre-order in. Look forward to hearing the presets once the patching is done too as your presets are always ace. Same deal with the documentation - always enlightening. You could pretty much just copy and paste this thread in there.
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
thank you, paypal had sent me duplicate messages for the order. there isn't much you need to know to use it, since there are only so many moving parts. i'll separate depthy stuff from the operator's section of the manual, which i hope will be mostly brightly coloured pictures.
here's some mini-notes i guess for alpha users -
i guess the finest point of use is familiarity with the hat alg. the last few sn1 algs are similar to the hat algs (but different), generating inharmonic spectra dependent on the pitch and tone (and spread for hats) params.. if you hear beating or anything that doesn't work, slight adjustments have great effect. especially i think sn1 #7 osc sounds pretty unlikely by itself, when i was designing it i got lots of what i consider good ~lofi hiphop tone when mixed with noise (often with lower f settings). (same for the brush but to use that you're off somewhere that doesn't matter).
you'll notice the hat oscs "snap to integer pitches" so when you adjust the spread slightly, some oscs change and some stay the same. you can kinda put oscs in the same range with fairly significant pitch changes combined with the spread.
trigger on the clap is the same way.. it distributes the timing of three events, it's subtle so that the effect may not be too overt with some settings, eg. slow decays.
sn2 1+2 use digital white noise, 3+4 use my shot noise emu. sn1 5+6 are stupidly bassy, if that works for you.
parameters can vary widely between algorithms. in many of the kick algorithms, the pitch env rate is really really fast, effecting only a cycle or two after the attack, and the pitch env amount could be more effecticely thought of as the tone for the attack component. then some are conventionally ranged.
in one or two of the tom algs, "noise" acts as tone. oh and lol the "laser" tom alg (which does that) is widely ranged "catch-all" alg, and especially with increased tone will alias overtly over nyquist (easy to hit at 44k if you want to).
and remember if you're really baked, "release" works opposite, low = no effect, high = very fast release.
here's some mini-notes i guess for alpha users -
i guess the finest point of use is familiarity with the hat alg. the last few sn1 algs are similar to the hat algs (but different), generating inharmonic spectra dependent on the pitch and tone (and spread for hats) params.. if you hear beating or anything that doesn't work, slight adjustments have great effect. especially i think sn1 #7 osc sounds pretty unlikely by itself, when i was designing it i got lots of what i consider good ~lofi hiphop tone when mixed with noise (often with lower f settings). (same for the brush but to use that you're off somewhere that doesn't matter).
you'll notice the hat oscs "snap to integer pitches" so when you adjust the spread slightly, some oscs change and some stay the same. you can kinda put oscs in the same range with fairly significant pitch changes combined with the spread.
trigger on the clap is the same way.. it distributes the timing of three events, it's subtle so that the effect may not be too overt with some settings, eg. slow decays.
sn2 1+2 use digital white noise, 3+4 use my shot noise emu. sn1 5+6 are stupidly bassy, if that works for you.
parameters can vary widely between algorithms. in many of the kick algorithms, the pitch env rate is really really fast, effecting only a cycle or two after the attack, and the pitch env amount could be more effecticely thought of as the tone for the attack component. then some are conventionally ranged.
in one or two of the tom algs, "noise" acts as tone. oh and lol the "laser" tom alg (which does that) is widely ranged "catch-all" alg, and especially with increased tone will alias overtly over nyquist (easy to hit at 44k if you want to).
and remember if you're really baked, "release" works opposite, low = no effect, high = very fast release.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRAF
- 3506 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England
Many thanks for the hints. Stayed up a little past my bedtime to play with this for an hour. I'm having a whirlwind romance with kick algorithm 8 right now. Love how the pitch/envelope/tone parameters influence each other in this algorithm. Been getting some mighty pitch drops by sending note-off messages with high decay and low release times, further mutated by modulating the tone knob as the kick is sounding. I've never used a synth kick that responds quite like it.xoxos wrote:parameters can vary widely between algorithms. in many of the kick algorithms, the pitch env rate is really really fast, effecting only a cycle or two after the attack, and the pitch env amount could be more effecticely thought of as the tone for the attack component. then some are conventionally ranged.
Can't quite believe how many algorithms there are. I know you've been talking about various algorithms over the course of this thread, but when the plug is in front of you it really hits just how many are in there.
I love this thing already, and I haven't scratched the surface. Pretty much everything it throws out has an old-school drum machine flavour, and everything seems to have a raw, weighty sound even without processing. Been battering out trappy rhythms with various algorithm configs and smiling ever so widely. I didn't expect it to have so much attitude.
It's brilliant Rurik. Thank you.
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- KVRian
- 1472 posts since 4 Apr, 2011 from Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
you're most welcome cron! 
iirc i got excited about that algorithm a few pages back and added it to the toms and snares (one reason for the alg count). it would be possible to make the tone flat for that alg but it's relatively intensive, and considering the application and the moderate amount of drop it creates this way, i figured for the optimisation.
iirc i got excited about that algorithm a few pages back and added it to the toms and snares (one reason for the alg count). it would be possible to make the tone flat for that alg but it's relatively intensive, and considering the application and the moderate amount of drop it creates this way, i figured for the optimisation.you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRAF
- 3152 posts since 22 Dec, 2004
My order's in.
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 12367 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
going with cannabis strains for patch names, so classic strains for classic timbres. at least, cinderella 99 should be easy.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
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- KVRist
- 322 posts since 2 Jul, 2012 from Castanet, Aveyron, France
Yipikay yay!
I must be brainfully blind or something, I can't find where to donate to make that early buy you said. My paypal account is itching like crazy!
Could someone help me finding my way back to the don-nation please?
I must be brainfully blind or something, I can't find where to donate to make that early buy you said. My paypal account is itching like crazy!
Could someone help me finding my way back to the don-nation please?
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- KVRAF
- 3152 posts since 22 Dec, 2004
http://www.xoxos.net/vst/vst.htmltanabarbier wrote:Yipikay yay!
I must be brainfully blind or something, I can't find where to donate to make that early buy you said. My paypal account is itching like crazy!
Could someone help me finding my way back to the don-nation please?
upper right of the page, yellow donate button
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- KVRist
- 322 posts since 2 Jul, 2012 from Castanet, Aveyron, France
Thank you very much sir!
edit: pre order completed!
edit: pre order completed!
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- KVRAF
- 10135 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
Aaaaahh yeaaah, donated
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- KVRAF
- 4329 posts since 26 Jun, 2004
xoxos wrote:going with cannabis strains for patch names
