KVR Audio

Ch00rD · Post by **Ch00rD** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:28 pm

penguinfromdeep wrote:I dunno, I'm not exactly floored with this ... It sounds good but it never seems to go dirty enough especially when using the tape delay and the distortion is too clean and hi-fi and the wobble doesn't sound convincing for me (I own couple of hardware tape delays myself). Might be just my tastes, I like it dirty But kudos for this, it's definitely very good and I might end up purchasing it anyway

I actually like the wobbliness of the tape delay.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/876 ... Wobble.mp3

penguinfromdeep · Post by **penguinfromdeep** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:34 pm

Cool sounds, but it doesn't sound like real tape delay feedback to me 100%. Too clean and hi.fi and dare I say even digital to some extent :p ...But it doesn't matter in the end except for someone like me who wants really authentic tape delay, well I have the hardware for that of course

Nobody cares except sad nerds like me, haha! I think UAD space echo might come closes at this point in software.

DIsclaimer: above doesn't mean that Satin couldn't be useful even for me

toine6 · Post by **toine6** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:43 pm

Eh.... I watched the demo released for this long ago, and that was enough to convince me to buy it. I have a hard time hearing and rating high end TAPE SOUND EFFECT vst's, the same way I have a hard time rating compressors. Unless it's a dirty and dramatic effect I don't get wowed, subtly is hard for me to get excited about. BUT, this is a very cool tape delay besides being a tape machine, so I bought it for that, and trust that the tape simulation will be at least decent if not great. I've already got a real cassette recorder for that lo-fi tape sound, but will experiment with this plugin to see if it adds anything when acting like a high end tape machine.

core · Post by **core** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:48 pm

sascha wrote:
core wrote: Sasha, is the delay-time calculation bug in sync mode a fix for the issue I sent the wav file for yesterday?
Your crackles appear to be something completely different, as if your driver causes interference. What audio card? I'm asking because I have a similar problem on my E-Mu 1212m at home, but only there, and only with Samplitude in Hybrid-Engine mode, not in WDM.
Does the crackle disappear when you turn down the delay feedback?

You're right, lowering the feedback delay makes the noise stop...
I tried driver, hybrid and mixer mode but all have the same problem. Also when using the windows driver btw.

sascha · Post by **sascha** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:50 pm

core wrote: You're right, lowering the feedback delay makes the noise stop...
I tried driver, hybrid and mixer mode but all have the same problem. Also when using the windows driver btw.

Hm, we keep monitoring that but I currently have no ad-hoc idea on this.

Breeze · Post by **Breeze** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:37 pm

Encoder question: considering the inclusion of Type-A and Type-B, I was wondering why Type-C was omitted. Lots of high-end cassette decks used it as well as the popular Fostex reel-to-reel multitracks.

core · Post by **core** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:49 pm

sascha wrote:
core wrote: You're right, lowering the feedback delay makes the noise stop...
I tried driver, hybrid and mixer mode but all have the same problem. Also when using the windows driver btw.
Hm, we keep monitoring that but I currently have no ad-hoc idea on this.

Thanks. Just tried the 1818 download but didn't fix it.

sascha · Post by **sascha** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:50 pm

Breeze wrote:Encoder question: considering the inclusion of Type-A and Type-B, I was wondering why Type-C was omitted. Lots of high-end cassette decks used it as well as the popular Fostex reel-to-reel multitracks.

We might expand the number of available companders in the future, which has to be decided at some point later.

However, C-Type, offering that dramatic amount of compansion, is very fiddly to set up right if you want to convert old stuff, and many units had compatibility issues, so that should be considered. That's why the later S-Type was reserved for designs which could do auto calibration and auto-azimuth adjustment; these are very sensitive systems. You can try it in Satin: be a bit 'off the mark' with the tape/service parameters, and things get screwed.
We generally chose to do A and B first because they sound pretty cool just as encoders and behave quite gentle under most circumstances, which is not really the case with C-Type.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:57 pm

IMO Satin really kills as a Space Echo style delay machine - I've been working with it on a delay bus in a slow (71 bpm) guitar track using S Gear and the delay tones I'm getting are right up my alley - I've used original Roland Space Echo machines and I don't want really filthy tones for this sort of thing, more of an aura around the guitar melody which remains reasonably transparent.

I am so pleased about the tempo sync option so thanks for including it. Flange tones on electric bass or drums are really good too. Welcome to U-He Sascha

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:58 pm

Would still love to see slower speed modes (and audio degradation in the process), as the Space Echo uses speeds for cassette tapes, not R2R's.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:04 pm

Well, hehe, Satin was developed as a Reel2Reel solution in the first place, and a quality one at that. The delay modes were put in place as an extra goodie. We'll see how it goes and if slower tape speeds / lofi modes are doable. Then we have plenty of room for future updates

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:09 pm

OK - sounds good to me - something for everybody

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:27 pm

Compyfox wrote:Would still love to see slower speed modes (and audio degradation in the process), as the Space Echo uses speeds for cassette tapes, not R2R's.

Tape speeds were not R2R speeds but the swept area was pretty large - comparable to 1/2 inch stereo. I had an idea the specs extended up pretty high but I couldn't find any references as to what was claimed. Faster speeds and new tapes would be best of course.

I gather that even at standard cassette speeds (1 7/8ths ips) the main thing restricting frequency response is correct alignment of tape on subsequent passes over the heads. A tech guy told me that on a single pass (ie record and playback heads both working at once - just as with a delay machine) he could get 22kHz signals back off tape using a studio machine but that playback on subsequent passes (with slightly different tape alignment over the heads) would be worse.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:31 pm

Urs wrote:Well, hehe, Satin was developed as a Reel2Reel solution in the first place, and a quality one at that. The delay modes were put in place as an extra goodie. We'll see how it goes and if slower tape speeds / lofi modes are doable. Then we have plenty of room for future updates

I think at a current state, it might be possible actually. I mean, the EQ changes the slower the speed. And this is what actually happens with regular tape machines as well.

I still try to find the correct speed of the Watkins Copycat and the Space Echo (google - not friendly today). But I don't think anyone might be using "micro-tapes" (1,2cm/s) or flight recorder (15/16ths of an inch/s or 2.38 cm/s) these days.

Though these applications do have their uses. Think sound design!

See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reel-to-re ... ape_speeds
And also it's German counterpart.

I'm actually thinking more of 1⅞ in/s 4.76 cm/s (Cassette Tape) or the next highest speed (3¾ in/s 9.53 cm/s) - and I think these speeds were used in tape delays as well. Not too sure. The Forstex I once used (Forstex 280 MultiTrack recorder and mixing console) also already used 9,5cm/s with compact cassette tapes and Dolby C-type noise reduction! Though granted, the recorder section was only capable of reproducing 40Hz to 14kHz, still a fun machine.

I even used copy machines (compact cassette), that used 7½ in/s (19.05 cm/s). Used for Church Community recordings (man, that thing must have been expensive, but it was copying tapes within minutes as backup!).

So yeah... I'd vote for such a mode. Actually, the only competition so far is Nomad Factory Magnetic II, which goes down to 1 7/8th inch/s (due to request), and I think Sknote also goes down to 7,5ips (actually, due to my request!)

Maybe create a "poly-satin" edition (an abbreviated term for polyester satin). If Satin is considered the "big pro", then "Poly-Satin" (plastic/synthetic Satin) could be considered the "slow tape machine" version.

Throw that together with an outsources Noise Reduction Module - and what do you know - you have the "Satin Suite".

Though I'm basically just throwing around ideas. So... uhm... what do I know.

electro · Post by **electro** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:43 pm

This Drum kit might be good for demoing Satin
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 68&start=0

u-he Satin or Slate VTM?