Im totally locked in my music making process help me

[trewq]

Of course there's a flipside to that advice: sometimes you just have to do any old thing, a sort of "throwing music at the wall to see what sticks".

Good analogy. Painters throw paint on a canvas until they see something to use. How would you go about throwing music? Methods? Tools?

[Aroused by JarJar]

Different strokes for different folks, of course. Something that might work is to set a concrete goal with a deadline. Something short and sweet. Say, make a 30 second slide show of some images you like. Score it with intent- a mood, a build-up and release. Decide what to do and do it. Do it by tomorrow at midnight, for example. When the deadline hits, stop. Don't just paste together some samples, but create the music from the ground up.

[ghettosynth]

Different strokes for different folks, of course. Something that might work is to set a concrete goal with a deadline. Something short and sweet. Say, make a 30 second slide show of some images you like. Score it with intent- a mood, a build-up and release. Decide what to do and do it. Do it by tomorrow at midnight, for example. When the deadline hits, stop. Don't just paste together some samples, but create the music from the ground up.

This is good advice, but the alternative works as well. Use samples and give yourself a couple of hours to paste together a track. If you can't finish it, you'll quickly figure out what your limitations are.

In fact, use a construction kit and recreate the demo. Now remix it, can you get closer to what you like by only chopping up and recombining the loops.

[Aroused by JarJar]

Different strokes for different folks, of course. Something that might work is to set a concrete goal with a deadline. Something short and sweet. Say, make a 30 second slide show of some images you like. Score it with intent- a mood, a build-up and release. Decide what to do and do it. Do it by tomorrow at midnight, for example. When the deadline hits, stop. Don't just paste together some samples, but create the music from the ground up.

This is good advice, but the alternative works as well. Use samples and give yourself a couple of hours to paste together a track. If you can't finish it, you'll quickly figure out what your limitations are.

In fact, use a construction kit and recreate the demo. Now remix it, can you get closer to what you like by only chopping up and recombining the loops.

I suspect that what the OP is really after is getting away from thinking in terms of combinatorics and collage.

[Sampleconstruct]

Erase the HD partition in your musical brain, reformat and start from scratch. Don't listen to all these silly genres anymore and just try to compose what's inside you. Not every piece of music needs a "groove" or a repeating phrase, or even a noticeable rhythm. Forget about supersaws and leads and basses and plucks and "drums", invent your own sounds, do some field recording, listen to some purely acoustic music, also classical, not even pop, if you're brave enough listen to some atonal stuff too.

What's your theory? Why is a particular "field recording" interesting? Why will this evoke some response in the listener? What response do you imagine that it invokes? EDM makes people dance and there's a lot of solid theory about why it works in the context that it works. Some of the "rules" exist largely to support how it's played, but granted, others are just artifacts of genre. You should know the difference. You should also be aware, however, that many artists do know the difference and there is a lot of music that does break the right rules and still can exist within the framework of what makes people dance.

My experience is that e.g. field recordings can broaden your sonic horizon a lot - I was not thinking of the listener of the OPs music but of the OPs need to expand his view on what music is or can be. I have created entire (commercial) film scores by deriving music from field recordings, not only by using the sounds themselves but by analyzing rhythms and harmonic structures found in the environment like e.g. nature or factories and then composing music around that.

So first, apologies, that came across as if I was addressing YOUR theory, I was challenging the OP to think about a theory in relation to his needs. To be clear, I don't disagree with you. Granted, I don't have your experience, but I use field recordings in similar ways. I just don't think that, by itself, "using field recordings" will get you any closer to what you want if you haven't thought about why you aren't getting there.

If the OP is stuck/locked at ever repeating attempts to suit a certain EMD genre in order to get some thumbs up on youtube or "Likes" on FB or Soundcloud then it's time to totally change and do something totally different, trying to compose something more unique, maybe even genre-free or cross-genre - no matter if that will be music that nobody "needs" or not.

No, I disagree. This might help, or it just might be wasted time. I think that this sort of advice is equivalent to suggesting more melody or chord changes in EDM when someone can't get the sound that they're looking for. If you want to produce good EDM, then probably the best thing to do is just to produce more EDM. If you get stuck, figure out what's limiting you in the style that you're trying to create.

Thankkfully music people can dance to or that makes it to the Top 40 is only a small fraction of music as such.

But it's a large fraction of EDM, amiright? And that's what the OP has stated that he wants to do.

When all these experiments fail the OP can always return to the locked area in his head and make some more EDM nobody needs.

One could argue that nobody NEEDS any music. My assertion about what people "want" was not with reference to any particular genre. Obviously, some, or even many, people want every kind of genre from straight field recordings to full orchestrations, traditional or synthetic. My assertion is that, if you can't do X well, then doing Y as a substitute will not necessarily generate a good product. I was not asserting that all Y is music that people don't want or need.

I even gave a personal example. Certainly I like creating noise/ambient, but I would argue that you (anyone, even me) would be wasting your time to listen to it. It's value is not in the end product, its value is in what the process does for the performers. That is, it is music (as product) that "nobody wants."

It's like suggesting that a guitar player switch to piano to improve his guitar. Well, in some sense, it does have value, but it's also a distraction.

Assuming that the OP is not making a living from his music he has all the freedom in the world to "waste time" by exploring music as a whole and not only as a certain genre named EDM with all it's derivatives. Maybe his musical talents lie somewhere totally different but he wasn't able to see that until now as he was so over-focussed on getting it right in EDM. My advice might be totally wrong or over the top but reading the OPs reactions in this thread he already got some other ideas and might dump EDM altogether and become a soundtrack composer. There is just so much to explore...

[hansba]

Assuming that the OP is not making a living from his music he has all the freedom in the world to "waste time" by exploring music as a whole and not only as a certain genre named EDM with all it's derivatives. Maybe his musical talents lie somewhere totally different but he wasn't able to see that until now as he was so over-focussed on getting it right in EDM. My advice might be totally wrong or over the top but reading the OPs reactions in this thread he already got some other ideas and might dump EDM altogether and become a soundtrack composer. There is just so much to explore...

Yup soundtrack composer could be one way to solve this situation. When I was young boy my father listened lot of classical music, indian music and jazz also Karl Heinz Stockhousen and after that I listened all kind of heavy music and so on... Heard very different music and all my childhood music heard almost only music which I dont listen anymore. Maybe Im too stucked in EDM music nowadays. It's so easy to choose EDM cuz there's so much tips and tuts for that. What about film music why example sonic academy or others don't make anything like soundtrack music tutorials. Should I learn everything myself then? Any good Youtube accounts for that or websites?

[coincidental]

Lots of good advice here! If I've read correctly, the OP is having trouble identifying what music they want to make. I reckon one way out is to try listening more broadly.

Try Late Junction on the BBC for a few weeks (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tp52 if you can get iPlayer where you are); it's a great mind expander. If anything takes your fancy, find out more, listen more, explore similar things, think a little about how that music was made and how you might make that music. It's not about copying other music (though that can be a useful exercise), it's more about getting fertiliser for your imagination. It's hard to develop a creative vision when your horizon is closed tight up to you.

It's the same with literature. Very few authors are so completely self-contained that their work has little or no reference to other things that have been written previously. So don't expect (or try) to be completely original - work on what you like, what you enjoy, what speaks to you. Then see if you have anything to say yourself. Even if you don't, at least you'll be having fun.

In the meantime, you can always work on your technical chops (production, sound design, harmony, melody, rhythm, structure, words) so you'll be better placed to move ahead once you have an idea of where you want to go.

Happy music making!

[Lotuzia]

To OP : Totally erasing your "mental hard disk" might be completely sterile and "conceptual for the love of concepts" only, because you'll only build upon the knowledge you already have, what you might want to do is simply broadening your musical knowledge, start to experiment with new approaches and ... get pleasure back, because your music will probably only satisfy you if it allows you to express your mood/feeling/sensations etc etc, and is close to what is important for you.

So some practical clues ? You're concerned with rythms ? Start to experiment with different rythms, and, equally important, different tempi ( Start to make a track at 60 bpm and you'll feel the difference at once ). You're concerned with changing the colour of your personal orchestra ? Start building blocks with different instruments, and learn how to make them sing, hit, shake, choke, or moan. Listen to different kinds of music, that will widen your vision, and amongst these, pay attention and put your analysis skills at work to those taht make you feel something special, something that you feel as close to your personal universe.

You find the EDM rules boring ? Start thinking how you could break some, there are much more possibilities to break laws than to strictly observe all of them.

Then just face it : Sometimes your interest in a particular genre will just weaken over time. When some will aim at mastering a particular genre, and stick with it as they become more skilled and efficient, until they eventually reach their personal Graal, others will simply change the genres, and be interested into something new. It might be an abrupt change, going to something drastically different, like going from dancefloors to dodecaphonic or atonal music, or it can just be a transition, going to more sophisticated, or neighbour genres. What you need, how and to what the transition will go, only you can decide.

And dont forget that during your quest, pleasure of making and sharing music will be the most important thing. If music is not for pleasure, then golf is better.

Hope it helps,

LtZ

[ghettosynth]

Different strokes for different folks, of course. Something that might work is to set a concrete goal with a deadline. Something short and sweet. Say, make a 30 second slide show of some images you like. Score it with intent- a mood, a build-up and release. Decide what to do and do it. Do it by tomorrow at midnight, for example. When the deadline hits, stop. Don't just paste together some samples, but create the music from the ground up.

This is good advice, but the alternative works as well. Use samples and give yourself a couple of hours to paste together a track. If you can't finish it, you'll quickly figure out what your limitations are.

In fact, use a construction kit and recreate the demo. Now remix it, can you get closer to what you like by only chopping up and recombining the loops.

I suspect that what the OP is really after is getting away from thinking in terms of combinatorics and collage.

Maybe, but that's not my point. What I read from the OP is that he is struggling with basic production. For each style of interest he's asking about tutorials. So, one way to help get to the finish line is to give yourself permission to just work on the things that you are struggling with by using the efforts of others to get you there. It's a good exercise. I do this all the time to practice new techniques.

Another useful technique is to find an example of something that you like, put it on an audio track in your DAW, and then try to replicate it. This will quickly point out to you what skills you are missing in trying to create a certain sound and you can go look for more focused guidance. Maybe, for example, you have no difficulty locking down the beats, but you can't figure out how to get a particular build. It will also help you understand the structure of the music that you like.

[padillac]

Should I learn everything myself then?

YES

[ghettosynth]

Assuming that the OP is not making a living from his music he has all the freedom in the world to "waste time" by exploring music as a whole and not only as a certain genre named EDM with all it's derivatives. Maybe his musical talents lie somewhere totally different but he wasn't able to see that until now as he was so over-focussed on getting it right in EDM. My advice might be totally wrong or over the top but reading the OPs reactions in this thread he already got some other ideas and might dump EDM altogether and become a soundtrack composer. There is just so much to explore...

Yup soundtrack composer could be one way to solve this situation.

Dude, that's a heavy sentence for someone who's asking about tutorials to write cookie cutter EDM. Soundtrack music is just another box. If you want to write music that fits in a box, you have to get to know the box. If you are just looking to enjoy your process, then, at the risk of sounding obvious, just do it.

What IS your process? Assuming like most of us that you don't start with pencil and paper, imagine that your DAW is open, what do you do next?

Maybe Im too stucked in EDM music nowadays. It's so easy to choose EDM cuz there's so much tips and tuts for that.

What's your musical background. I don't mean what you have listened to, but rather, what instruments do you play, what have you studied?

What about film music why example sonic academy or others don't make anything like soundtrack music tutorials. Should I learn everything myself then? Any good Youtube accounts for that or websites?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=filmscore+tutorial

This is a very interesting video from one of the masters. It talks quite a bit about the relation between the music and the images of the film.

[Aroused by JarJar]

Hello!

Im totally locked in my music making process help me. I have found out how formal and generic structure electronic genre has. Also find out how many songs based on sample cds. That makes me wonder if there is some electronic music genre which have more freedom to work without thinking bars all the time and sounds too much and which are more experimental and not that generic structured?

I think it's clear that the OP wants to make "more experimental and not that generic structured" music, just like he/she/it says, and NOT cookie-cutter EDM.

Don't know about here at KVR, but out in meat land it's my experience that the
OP is not alone in realizing what a "formal and generic structure electronic genre has" and looking for something different. Recently there was a professional EDM DJ here, well known in this part of the world, who admitted in private that for the last couple of years he only listens to classical* music at home because he's sick to death of the rigid patterns. At the same time he doesn't want to roll glitch or other "noisy" kinds of electronica. Basically he was describing the same point view of the OP. And he's not the only musician I've met expressing a similar attitude.

*he meant Romantic

[ghettosynth]

Hello!

Im totally locked in my music making process help me. I have found out how formal and generic structure electronic genre has. Also find out how many songs based on sample cds. That makes me wonder if there is some electronic music genre which have more freedom to work without thinking bars all the time and sounds too much and which are more experimental and not that generic structured?

I think it's clear that the OP wants to make "more experimental and not that generic structured" music, just like he/she/it says, and NOT cookie-cutter EDM.

Virtually all music has structure. I use the same techniques across many styles, not just EDM. People have been doing this for years, in fact, an entire genre of EDM resulted from the failure of one product to achieve precisely this goal. I'm talking about the TB-303 which was never envisioned to be anything more than an accessory for guitar players.

Don't know about here at KVR, but out in meat land it's my experience that the
OP is not alone in realizing what a "formal and generic structure electronic genre has"

EDM is "DANCE" music, if you aren't dancing, then there's not much point to it. In that context, the structure is important. I've written quite extensively about this and I'm not going to repeat it here.

and looking for something different.

He stated point blank, that he was looking to create dance music, and then not more than three posts later, he wants to be a film composer. That should tell you something, it tells me something and informs my advice.

Recently there was a professional EDM DJ here, well known in this part of the world, who admitted in private that for the last couple of years he only listens to classical* music at home because he's sick to death of the rigid patterns.

So what? The reason that this "pro DJ" reacts in this way could simply be that classical music triggers the kinds of brain responses that one is looking for when their job is to mix EDM all night. Just because this person is a "well known DJ" doesn't mean that his choice is indicative of anything more than that.

When you listen to something constantly, you get sick of it. A steady diet of almost anything will trigger this response. My gut reaction to anyone claiming a steady diet of anything, but especially classical, is that they are insecure about their intellectual accomplishments.

I get the sense that a large portion of KVR doesn't really understand EDM. All dance music, electronic or not, has a fairly rigid structure, that structure is important for the "dance." EDM has an additional structural component that relates to how it's played. As I stated earlier in this thread, it is important to understand what about the structure of any piece is related to these goals and what is related to "trends" within the genre. You are free to break from the trends, but there are consequences for breaking from structure that serves a purpose.


[/i]

[jancivil]

Different strokes for different folks, of course. Something that might work is to set a concrete goal with a deadline. Something short and sweet. Say, make a 30 second slide show of some images you like. Score it with intent- a mood, a build-up and release. Decide what to do and do it. Do it by tomorrow at midnight, for example. When the deadline hits, stop. Don't just paste together some samples, but create the music from the ground up.

This is good advice, but the alternative works as well. Use samples and give yourself a couple of hours to paste together a track. If you can't finish it, you'll quickly figure out what your limitations are.

In fact, use a construction kit and recreate the demo. Now remix it, can you get closer to what you like by only chopping up and recombining the loops.

I suspect that what the OP is really after is getting away from thinking in terms of combinatorics and collage.

Me too. I think that is the 'locked' aspect, and that encouraging more of that, and fighting against advice to be more free-thinking is more self-replicating than helpful per se.
I can't know the mind of this individual to be certain but given what I read and their replies I have that sense.

Virtually all music has structure. I use the same techniques across many styles

a lot of styles that are cookie-cutter as well? 'the same techniques' of chopping up loops and moving loops around the timeline in the sequencer? Are you modeling this behavior for the youth of today, then?

There is this broad term 'all music has structure' but you've narrowed it to a certain area, where 'content' is largely determined by 'form'; where everything in a 'genre' meets very restricted criteria and attributes (There is structure/genus and there is the cookie-cutter quality of structure/species.). And we see this complaint 'locked in'.

I do think one that has been restricted up to now to relying on someone else's basslines and drum tracks is going to encounter much more major limitations by having to come up with their own parts, and that this could be healthy. One finds out what their own personality is in music, involved with rhythm from the ground up.

He stated point blank, that he was looking to create dance music, and then not more than three posts later, he wants to be a film composer. That should tell you something

Yes, it tells me the person is kind of unformed so far, very open to suggestion, 'an open mind'; and the context seems to be 'bored with certain strictures'. So why are you pushing for the whole EDM narrowness of it all and trying to make opening up to more possiblities seem dodgy? You're telling us about you. I'll tell you about me then, I would love less of this thing replicating and I think the insistence on this incredibly narrow way isn't so healthy.

[jancivil]

When you listen to something constantly, you get sick of it. A steady diet of almost anything will trigger this response. My gut reaction to anyone claiming a steady diet of anything, but especially classical, is that they are insecure about their intellectual accomplishments.

straw man does what?

'classical' is potentially a rather broader category than 'EDM' [per the context of the thread, anyway] isn't it?

You want to say 'structure'? Well, let's take 'the classical period' in order to pin 'classical' down, to show the difference: the structure there is involved with 'development' of the material, exploring and exploiting a part of a theme at a smaller, germinal level, the motif; examination of details in terms of a larger architecture; expansion and transformations... a lot of things. So I see a person say "sick to death of the rigid patterns" and they go home for the antidote, it has some sense. But what do you need to do? Dismiss it via an ad hom of a straw man. It occurs to me that maybe you really don't know the difference; that you're dealing with surfaces, this label and that label, and just rush in with these glib equivalences.

Soundtrack music is just another box.

REALLY? I've heard all kinds of music in movies. You're taking wide, broad, deep areas and pushing this reduction of things that don't work like EDM to the level of 'EDM' here. It's all rather suspect.