Spire Synthesizer

[tehlord]

I still notice massive CPU usage on my ageing Q9400 quad and i5 mac mini.

Both are mid-low range machines admittedly, but it just means that Spire is a no go for me as a bread and butter plugin (which is what it's being aimed at presumably?)

Seeing as other people are seeing 60-70% CPU use with i7's as well, I wonder how much more optimisation there is to be had.

[Muziksculp]

How do you load the other preset banks ? (i.e. where do you install the new banks on PC ) ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp

The additional banks are in the downloaded archive (I think this is not different with the Mac version) and can manually copied to a different location. On the PC they are also installed to the plug-in folder (so normally you don't need to copy them manually).
The preset/bank location is not hard-coded and (unfortunately) Spire also doesn't remember the last location.
With Menu -> Load Bank you can load banks (also single presets).

Thanks for the help.

Cheers,
Muziksculp

[bmanic]

i ad the impression the sound quality is better - for example the hiss of the waveforms is more sharp to my ears, but that a common illusion i guess
looking forward to the preset manager now.

The "sharpness" is exactly what I dislike. It sounds like more aliasing to me. It irritates the ears and creates a lot of fatigue.

[bmanic]

Here are audio examples from Spire version 0.9.4 (the first one I got my hands on) and then the latest version (1.0.2).

You can hear and even look at the difference (phase invert one against the other). Yeah, the envelope shapes have changed a bit but that's not the big problem, the problem is the brightness and "harshness" of the latest version compared to the older version. I can tolerate the 0.9.4 version of this sound, even though it's borderline nasty.. but the 1.0.2 version of the identical sound is so harsh at the very top end (aliasing?) that it truly hurt my ears.

Spire v0.94 sound example

Spire v1.0.2 sound example

NOTE!!! Both sounds are 48kHz 32bit float wav files! Make sure you use a proper DAW to listen to the files.

The thing is, many of the presets of Spire are borderline ear piercing, but only borderline.. somehow the latest version has crossed the line for me and I find myself having to use 3rd party plugins like U-He Satin to keep the highs in check. This harshness was what originally triggered me to start investigating the matter.

I'll continue to investigate this. It seems like the modulator resolution (envelopes) has also been slightly lowered though I'm not 100% sure about this.. anyhow, I don't like this, at all. Even if it reduces CPU it should NOT be a mandatory thing. Instead it would be much smarter to have a High Quality mode and a Low Quality mode or something.. or even more options like in U-He Diva. This way we can fine tune sounds that need the extra processing (bright sounds, envelopes with fast attack release in the order of a few milliseconds) to have that extra processing behind them if need be.

Cheers!
bManic

[fgimian]

Here are audio examples from Spire version 0.9.4 (the first one I got my hands on) and then the latest version (1.0.2).

You can hear and even look at the difference (phase invert one against the other). Yeah, the envelope shapes have changed a bit but that's not the big problem, the problem is the brightness and "harshness" of the latest version compared to the older version. I can tolerate the 0.9.4 version of this sound, even though it's borderline nasty.. but the 1.0.2 version of the identical sound is so harsh at the very top end (aliasing?) that it truly hurt my ears.

Spire v0.94 sound example

Spire v1.0.2 sound example

NOTE!!! Both sounds are 48kHz 32bit float wav files! Make sure you use a proper DAW to listen to the files.

The thing is, many of the presets of Spire are borderline ear piercing, but only borderline.. somehow the latest version has crossed the line for me and I find myself having to use 3rd party plugins like U-He Satin to keep the highs in check. This harshness was what originally triggered me to start investigating the matter.

I'll continue to investigate this. It seems like the modulator resolution (envelopes) has also been slightly lowered though I'm not 100% sure about this.. anyhow, I don't like this, at all. Even if it reduces CPU it should NOT be a mandatory thing. Instead it would be much smarter to have a High Quality mode and a Low Quality mode or something.. or even more options like in U-He Diva. This way we can fine tune sounds that need the extra processing (bright sounds, envelopes with fast attack release in the order of a few milliseconds) to have that extra processing behind them if need be.

Cheers!
bManic

Hmm, I must admit that I can't hear the difference at all. So I inverted one channel and summed it with the other and it cancels out completely with the exception of a very minor change in the sound's attack.

Perhaps others will spot the difference, but to me personally, they're honestly identical.

Thanks for posting though!

[zvenx]

Neither can I hear the difference, and when I do the phase invert on one I get pretty much what soundpalace is describing above.

And yes I did set my cubase project to 48 khz, 32 bit.

rsp

[Phase47]

Thanks Bmanic. I did (and do) hear a difference as well. For me I heard it between the 1.0 and the 1.1 and now the 1.2. Can't quite put my finger on it. Some patches feel thinner or less polished. I realize this is vague and subjective, but haven't had alot of time outside the ol' day job recently.

Hopefully you can send that info to the dev, or maybe he'll read it here. I don't know if the sound quality issues are related to CPU optimization or just some oversight in the updates - maybe it can be reversed.

[djanthonyw]

I'm hearing a difference as well.

[zvenx]

you guys are hearing a difference in the files he put up or in the plugin itself or both?

rsp

[VitaminD]

I still notice massive CPU usage on my ageing Q9400 quad and i5 mac mini.

Both are mid-low range machines admittedly, but it just means that Spire is a no go for me as a bread and butter plugin (which is what it's being aimed at presumably?)

Seeing as other people are seeing 60-70% CPU use with i7's as well, I wonder how much more optimisation there is to be had.

I wonder if it is some kind of compatibility issue with your computers...

I'm seeing it peak at around 50% on my PC (Windows7 64-bit, i5 2500, MOTU interface<4ms buffer, 24-bit @ 44.1khz>) in Orion 32-bit using Eight instances of Spire v1.02 involving 4 note chords held over large pad presets (and one bass and a sequenced instance).

Actually, Are you sure you don't have your host set to use 96khz or some very small AI buffer value??

[fisherKing]

i hear it (on my focal monitors), but it's still a small difference, or at least...one that can be dealt with, with eq for example, or modifying the filter in spire. i mean, it's not earth-shattering. and i for one welcome any reduction of cpu...as long as nothing MAJOR changes in the sound...

[liquidsound]

Here are audio examples from Spire version 0.9.4 (the first one I got my hands on) and then the latest version (1.0.2).

You can hear and even look at the difference (phase invert one against the other). Yeah, the envelope shapes have changed a bit but that's not the big problem, the problem is the brightness and "harshness" of the latest version compared to the older version. I can tolerate the 0.9.4 version of this sound, even though it's borderline nasty.. but the 1.0.2 version of the identical sound is so harsh at the very top end (aliasing?) that it truly hurt my ears.

Spire v0.94 sound example

Spire v1.0.2 sound example

NOTE!!! Both sounds are 48kHz 32bit float wav files! Make sure you use a proper DAW to listen to the files.

The thing is, many of the presets of Spire are borderline ear piercing, but only borderline.. somehow the latest version has crossed the line for me and I find myself having to use 3rd party plugins like U-He Satin to keep the highs in check. This harshness was what originally triggered me to start investigating the matter.

I'll continue to investigate this. It seems like the modulator resolution (envelopes) has also been slightly lowered though I'm not 100% sure about this.. anyhow, I don't like this, at all. Even if it reduces CPU it should NOT be a mandatory thing. Instead it would be much smarter to have a High Quality mode and a Low Quality mode or something.. or even more options like in U-He Diva. This way we can fine tune sounds that need the extra processing (bright sounds, envelopes with fast attack release in the order of a few milliseconds) to have that extra processing behind them if need be.

Cheers!
bManic

The 1.02 feels like tamed to me.

[timothyallan]

As we all know, those small things add up though. Small amounts of crap soon add up into giant turds.

[Phase47]

you guys are hearing a difference in the files he put up or in the plugin itself or both?

rsp

I haven't heard the files. I'm mobile. I'm hearing the difference between versions of the plug in Logic at 44.1 fwiw. I'd say pre-1.0 and 1.0 sound a little better than the last two updates.

[zvenx]

Spire may well be the first software synth where the vintage version is treasured more than the modern version
rsp