Looking for ideas for a choir type library with these qualifications.

[dblock]

I want to round off my composing tools by adding some choirs.
I've listened to some demos and read reviews and now have at least a vague idea of what may work for me if it's out there or at least what won't work for me.

1. I don't want to spend more hours trying to get the choir to sing something than it takes to compose the piece.The professional demos don't always give a clear picture of how much blood sweat and tears it could take to make the product do what you hear. I realize it usually takes some time and effort with these things in order to produce the best results and I'm willing to make a "reasonable" effort to do that but I'm not looking for a test in human suffrage and endurance to get reasonable results.Something that works as close to out of the box as can be reasonably expected.

2. It has to be versatile.I want to be able to put words in their mouths. All the latin ooh ah angels/Omen devil stuff is great but the choir also has to be able to sing (for us ol timers out there,) the words "You Can't Always Get What You Want." like the choir does in the intro to the Rolling Stone's hit. I want to get use out of this thing without having to write the same ol stuff in order to use it.

3. Should be as full featured as possible for the price. I have to say that because I don't use choir stuff like I would a synth so I don't really want to spend 3x what something like Omnisphere costs which I could use everyday for something I would only use occasionally BUT, I'm also realistic realizing you get what you pay for "usually" so I'm willing to be flexible "if" it is well rounded enough that I might get more use out of it. A choir library that can only offer 3 incoherent syllables but has 18 different reverb choices won't cut it. My dog can sing 3 syllables.

4. Quality. You want quality you pay for it. I get that. I've got some high end libraries so I'm looking for something to compliment them sound wise and not bring them down.This may sound contradictory me looking for medium priced choirs for high end stuff but here I'm basing it more relative to my potential usage but will spend more before I settle for mediocre sounding stuff. Maybe a Choir "light" version of a great choir library only maybe you can't get the choir to say tits or ass or something like you can the gold version

Any ideas or even better, experiences with what you already own would be greatly appreciated.

[Karmacomposer]

Because of #2, you're only real choice is EWQL Symphonic Choirs. It also has #3 and #4 as well.

I have it (Play and Kontakt editions) and it can sing what you want it to (with Word Builder that comes with it) and if you buy the expansion, then you can also use the more Wagner-esque choirs to almost scream the words at you (think 'The Omen').

Since it can take some getting used to - creating a perfect sounding sentence could take some time, #1 is the only request that may not be satisfied until you are a word builder master.

All the others choir collections, at most, allow for phrase building, but not singing actual words.

Mike

[dblock]

Because of #2, you're only real choice is EWQL Symphonic Choirs. It also has #3 and #4 as well.

I have it (Play and Kontakt editions) and it can sing what you want it to (with Word Builder that comes with it) and if you buy the expansion, then you can also use the more Wagner-esque choirs to almost scream the words at you (think 'The Omen').

Since it can take some getting used to - creating a perfect sounding sentence could take some time, #1 is the only request that may not be satisfied until you are a word builder master.

All the others choir collections, at most, allow for phrase building, but not singing actual words.

Mike

Very helpful response Kamacomposer!
"Since it can take some getting used to - creating a perfect sounding sentence could take some time, #1 is the only request that may not be satisfied until you are a word builder master."
I actually read a user review that expressed the same thing.
I'm wondering though if you think the sound quality itself is still up to sit next to libraries like Symphobia and lumina and 8dio stuff which I have?
Sounds like it could be pretty close to what I'm looking for though I would have to look deeper into how difficult it would be to use.

[Mike Greene]

The sound quality is certainly good. It's a professional choir and professionally recorded, so it will hold its own compared to your other libraries. However, you won't get it to sound like Gospel singers (like your Rolling Stones example.) Symphonic Choirs (often abbreviated EWQLSC) is a very "traditional" choir. One other caveat is that they don't get especially powerful, in case you're thinking of doing any action film trailers or "Oh Fortuna" knockoffs. EWQLSC is best as mid or soft sounding passages that aren't too fast.

As Mike (Karmacomposer) said, your first request will probably be your main sticking point. I have EWQLSC, and it's a bear to get the phrases to sound how you want. I don't use it anymore because of the time it takes. I call in singers and stack them instead. More expensive, but way faster and I can get better "emotion" and dynamics with real singers. (Mind you, I have my own studio and singers who are really quick, so your situation may be different.)

That's not a knock against East West, by the way. (Although it would be nice if they'd spend some time updating this library. Some have speculated that it's been abandoned.) It's just that the nature of word-building is very complex. I know of no other option than EWQLSC if you want choirs singing actual lyrics, and I believe that it's because of the difficulty and expense of taking on a challenge like that.

[dblock]

Because of #2, you're only real choice is EWQL Symphonic Choirs. It also has #3 and #4 as well.

I have it (Play and Kontakt editions) and it can sing what you want it to (with Word Builder that comes with it) and if you buy the expansion, then you can also use the more Wagner-esque choirs to almost scream the words at you (think 'The Omen').

Since it can take some getting used to - creating a perfect sounding sentence could take some time, #1 is the only request that may not be satisfied until you are a word builder master.

All the others choir collections, at most, allow for phrase building, but not singing actual words.

Mike

Hey Mike!
Just wanted to say thanks alot for the tip on the EastWest Symphony Choirs! Just so happens they're still 50% off on the extended labor Day sale until midnight tonight! For $247 and as close as it is to what I want at a price I'm willing to pay it's a no brainer for me.
Thanks again!

[Mike Greene]

For $247, I think you'll be happy. People have gotten some great results from it.

After I wrote my last post, I started thinking about some examples where I faked a choir by stacking voices. (Not to dissuade you from getting EWQLSC, mind you, since at $247, I'd definitely get it if I were you.) Here's a song (a Nickelodeon promo) I did using just two singers; a very talented singer named Julie, and a much less talented singer named Mike Greene. I think it's fairly believable:

https://soundcloud.com/realitone/fairly-odd-christmas

[dblock]

For $247, I think you'll be happy. People have gotten some great results from it.

After I wrote my last post, I started thinking about some examples where I faked a choir by stacking voices. (Not to dissuade you from getting EWQLSC, mind you, since at $247, I'd definitely get it if I were you.) Here's a song (a Nickelodeon promo) I did using just two singers; a very talented singer named Julie, and a much less talented singer named Mike Greene. I think it's fairly believable:

https://soundcloud.com/realitone/fairly-odd-christmas

Now that was very cool. I actually ran across Realivox the other day while researching potential choirs. This new company is interesting and once I've purchased the EW Choirs I'll definitely be considering programs like this for filling in the vocal style gaps with a nice poppy jazzy kind of niche.
I'll be checking them out to see if they develop it further with updates. Could be on my short list for certain uses.
Great promo work by the way!

[dblock]

The sound quality is certainly good. It's a professional choir and professionally recorded, so it will hold its own compared to your other libraries. However, you won't get it to sound like Gospel singers (like your Rolling Stones example.) Symphonic Choirs (often abbreviated EWQLSC) is a very "traditional" choir. One other caveat is that they don't get especially powerful, in case you're thinking of doing any action film trailers or "Oh Fortuna" knockoffs. EWQLSC is best as mid or soft sounding passages that aren't too fast.

As Mike (Karmacomposer) said, your first request will probably be your main sticking point. I have EWQLSC, and it's a bear to get the phrases to sound how you want. I don't use it anymore because of the time it takes. I call in singers and stack them instead. More expensive, but way faster and I can get better "emotion" and dynamics with real singers. (Mind you, I have my own studio and singers who are really quick, so your situation may be different.)

That's not a knock against East West, by the way. (Although it would be nice if they'd spend some time updating this library. Some have speculated that it's been abandoned.) It's just that the nature of word-building is very complex. I know of no other option than EWQLSC if you want choirs singing actual lyrics, and I believe that it's because of the difficulty and expense of taking on a challenge like that.

Once again, I appreciate your input and the detailed response.Hiring backup singers or choirs isn't on the table for me so I'm after the next best thing but not something that will frustrate the hell out of me or give me less than I want with reasonable effort so your point is well taken. I have til midnight when the sale ends to stew on it. A bargain on something you don't want isn't much of a bargain.
Also, there's a "Vota" upgrade for like $40 more that's supposed to make the voices more powerful and dare I say aggressive.Reading reviews and searching youtube on that now.

[Mike Greene]

If you're feeling pressure to decide before midnight, bear in mind that East West is always having sales. It might not be until Halloween or Christmas that it's this low, but I'd be willing to bet that this price will appear again before the end of the year.

[dblock]

If you're feeling pressure to decide before midnight, bear in mind that East West is always having sales. It might not be until Halloween or Christmas that it's this low, but I'd be willing to bet that this price will appear again before the end of the year.

My thoughts exactly Mike. On top of that,I watched a couple of word builder tutorials and decided I know me and I'm not going to want to spend time doing all the syllable construction I saw them do.I think I'll just pass on these vocal programs for now.It's not a must for what I do. I can definitely get by without it at least until the progams are a bit more refined for easier use.

[Karmacomposer]

You are welcome.

Mike, you are correct EXCEPT that if you buy the EWQLSC expansion, it adds their Voices of the Apocalypse - which is well suited to faster singing (and very brutal) - lots of staccatos and quick singing - allows for a faster tempo.

I've used the choir for a wide variety of pieces and it has always added true polish to the production.

However, yes, you will need to wrangle with their word builder to get just the right pronunciations. They do offer three different modes to enter words, though.

Overall, I would buy EWQLSC if it's 50% off - WORTH EVERY PENNY. It cost me $999 originally and I even UPGRADED it to Play and VOTA expansion as well.

Mike

P.S. Mike, that example is a HOOT!