KVR Audio

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:50 am

I know, I was just joking around!

Let's review:

-people are different and have different views
-it's kvr

There, everyone group-hug!

V0RT3X · Post by **V0RT3X** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:06 am

sascha wrote:
bmanic wrote:It's wow&flutter isn't quite as convincing either.
If you can provide us with more info on what your 'ideal' w&f is like (isn't it funny...? ), we're all ears.
More 'scrape flutter'?
More random/worn-out?
Anything else? Let us know.

I would love to see some settings so i can get some boards of canada style sounds out of satin.

Doing a bit of research on what BOC use I found this if it helps.

bocpages.org/wiki/Equipment#Tape_decks

"We love these low-quality tape machines," Eoin says. "The great thing with machines such as the Grundig is that it's tragically bad. Whatever you record into it just doesn't come out unscathed. There's a 'magic eye' valve display on it, and when you hit the tape deck with the right volume, enough to fill out the magic eye, it's at that exact sweet spot that it is saturating the tape. So if you then sample back the playback, it's got a thousand years' grain on it." Remix, 2005

parma · Post by **parma** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:02 am

^ this is what I was getting at. I knew BOC used (abused) tape machines to get their sound. I was *hoping* (not expecting) Satin would be able to do this type of more extreme modulation.

dalor, if you read what I wrote, I acknowledged that this might be beyond the scope of what Satin is intended to do (at least version 1). But it is undeniable that tape machines can be made to behave in such a way. Since Satin is a tape machine emulation I don't think it's an unusual feature request. And since the developer(s) asked for feedback, I thought I'd let them know what I wish for. That worn tape sound is actually fairly sought after in certain types of electronic music.

As for just using Speakerphone - as Theo and others have pointed out, I can't justify spending that kind of money for something that I'd use solely for that effect.

dalor · Post by **dalor** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:14 am

I wouldn't say No if Satin COULD do old dying tape emulation in the future

It wasn't advertised as such - that's where my confusion was. All good, lets see where Urs is going with future updates of Satin or re-use Satin's technology in other products? I'm sure he's listening.

parma · Post by **parma** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:16 am

dalor wrote:I wouldn't say No if Satin COULD do old dying tape emulation in the future It wasn't advertised as such - that's where my confusion was. All good, lets see where Urs is going with future updates of Satin or re-use Satin's technology in other products? I'm sure he's listening.

penguinfromdeep · Post by **penguinfromdeep** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:55 am

I too would like to see that kind of lo-fi warbly mode (essential for those authentic tape echo effects!) ... Nobody did that in plug-in world yet. Most of the time the wow & flutter sounds too much just like some kind of lfo slapped on (which it is to some extent I guess but still). Sorry to kind of hijack U-he thread but Sean from Valhalla DSP recently posted on facebook that he wants to acquire a Roland Space Echo .. Also posted a video where there was some nice warbly space echo action going on and how much he liked that particular effect, so maybe there's hope?

medienhexer · Post by **medienhexer** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:41 am

If Satin is based on modeling both head and tape, then it would be possible to add a worn-out tape model and a faulty head at a later stage, I guess. However, please, guys, U-he have just finished a huge amount of work and are now taking on bug fixing for features they actually advertised (i think mixing will be more fun and a little easier thanks to Satin's current tape characteristics). We all know that improvements will happen over time. And I'd be as pleased as anobody else to get access to more lofi but there's also Diva, Bazille, Zebra 3, Presswerk and UHBIK additions which are highly anticipated. If lofi tape is the only thing which could convince you to buy Satin, U-he will understand that you won't buy at this point in time.

And generally speaking: you can't just add bad behavior within a few days and expect it to be authentic. Creating a model of a bad circuit is just as much effort as creating a model of a good circuit. I wouldn't expect the same effort as for the current models but still several weeks to months. I'd rather have Presswerk and UHBIK first before they invest the time and money into a lofi model.

parma · Post by **parma** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:52 am

medienhexer wrote:If Satin is based on modeling both head and tape, then it would be possible to add a worn-out tape model and a faulty head at a later stage, I guess. However, please, guys, U-he have just finished a huge amount of work and are now taking on bug fixing for features they actually advertised (i think mixing will be more fun and a little easier thanks to Satin's current tape characteristics). We all know that improvements will happen over time. And I'd be as pleased as anobody else to get access to more lofi but there's also Diva, Bazille, Zebra 3, Presswerk and UHBIK additions which are highly anticipated. If lofi tape is the only thing which could convince you to buy Satin, U-he will understand that you won't buy at this point in time.

And generally speaking: you can't just add bad behavior within a few days and expect it to be authentic. Creating a model of a bad circuit is just as much effort as creating a model of a good circuit. I wouldn't expect the same effort as for the current models but still several weeks to months. I'd rather have Presswerk and UHBIK first before they invest the time and money into a lofi model.

I don't think anybody here expects the u-he guys to come up with the lo-fi stuff we're talking about in a couple of days. It's more like a feature request for Satin 1.5 or 2.

And I'm sure u-he know best how to spend their time and manage their projects.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:04 am

Actually, the lofi stuff we're talking about comes next week or so: Tape speed will go down to 1.875 IPS - which was requested for more realistic tape echo effects.

Worn out tape, jelly and baked tape are not yet on the list. I think after one year of magnetic stuff Sascha would appreciate to deal with something else. I've never given lofi much of a thought, but coming to think about it, I love what Snapseed does to my photos.

Ch00rD · Post by **Ch00rD** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:16 am

Urs wrote:Actually, the lofi stuff we're talking about comes next week or so: Tape speed will go down to 1.875 IPS - which was requested for more realistic tape echo effects.

Worn out tape, jelly and baked tape are not yet on the list. I think after one year of magnetic stuff Sascha would appreciate to deal with something else. I've never given lofi much of a thought, but coming to think about it, I love what Snapseed does to my photos.

Awesome, and not only for more 'realistic' tape echo effects (which I'd prefer to call 'authentic', as most of the 'classic' tape echo devices typically do not sound very 'realistic' themselves). Lower tape speed also means that we get longer maximum delay times, too. Satin is bound to become my favourite 'dub delay'.

sascha · Post by **sascha** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:45 am

I'm currently looking inito the wow & flutter 'issue', and I got a feeling we can improve it greatly.
Mind you, there's a 'default transport setup' and a virtual capstan diameter which I've chosen to cause fluctuations at around 6 - 7 Hz @ 7.5ips. This fluctuation changes with speed (of course), therefore the w&f texture won't match the one from, say, a cassette recorder, even if you turn the sped down to 1.875 ips like it's possible in newer beta builds. As speed gets adjusted, the machine speeds up or down, the parts aren't changed. That should be kept in mind when going for lo-fi sounds.

core · Post by **core** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:37 am

whoohoo, now if only you'll be able to model that lovely thing where I can hear tracks playing in reverse on the flip of the tape and I can get rid of my old cassettes and crappy cassette deck once and for all

+1 on more lo-fi BOC-ness

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:32 am

For those of you interested in the low-fi side:
I recommend experimenting with the delay mode automating tape speed...

In this example I animated/automated the Satin tape speed in Usine Hollyhock with my Aon_Random module in a smooth-random way.
Feedback is set to zero - dial in more to get some really nasty mayhem

I also animated the four head-distances at rather low levels, so the delay isn't heard as much as a bounce - this also creates interesting pitch changes.
First the dry generative Chromaphone sequence (Satin completely bypassed), then wet for a while and dry again at the end.
No other effects were used but one instance of Satin.

http://www.screendream.de/AoN_Usine/Ani ... 0Out-0.mp3

So if you want, you can go pretty rough too with Satin

Cheers,

Tom

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:44 pm

I think we can all see where this is leading ...

sergiofrias · Post by **sergiofrias** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:38 pm

bmanic wrote:It's wow&flutter isn't quite as convincing either.

want some variable wow and flutter?
try this great vst for free:

download : http://www.interruptor.ch/vst/Wow_n_Flutter_1_1.zip

u-he Satin or Slate VTM?