u-he Satin or Slate VTM?

[parma]

I'm currently looking inito the wow & flutter 'issue', and I got a feeling we can improve it greatly.
Mind you, there's a 'default transport setup' and a virtual capstan diameter which I've chosen to cause fluctuations at around 6 - 7 Hz @ 7.5ips. This fluctuation changes with speed (of course), therefore the w&f texture won't match the one from, say, a cassette recorder, even if you turn the sped down to 1.875 ips like it's possible in newer beta builds. As speed gets adjusted, the machine speeds up or down, the parts aren't changed. That should be kept in mind when going for lo-fi sounds.

Sascha or Urs -

I'm playing with the Satin demo and noticed that I can get the "warbly" sound I'm after by subtly moving the Range knob in Flange mode. Only problem is that it doesn't appear in the controls list in Logic X so I can't automate this parameter. Is there any way you can allow this parameter to be seen by the host so I can use Midi Learn to automate the knob movement? Just about every other parameter shows up in the controls list.

[Urs]

I'm currently looking inito the wow & flutter 'issue', and I got a feeling we can improve it greatly.
Mind you, there's a 'default transport setup' and a virtual capstan diameter which I've chosen to cause fluctuations at around 6 - 7 Hz @ 7.5ips. This fluctuation changes with speed (of course), therefore the w&f texture won't match the one from, say, a cassette recorder, even if you turn the sped down to 1.875 ips like it's possible in newer beta builds. As speed gets adjusted, the machine speeds up or down, the parts aren't changed. That should be kept in mind when going for lo-fi sounds.

Sascha or Urs -

I'm playing with the Satin demo and noticed that I can get the "warbly" sound I'm after by subtly moving the Range knob in Flange mode. Only problem is that it doesn't appear in the controls list in Logic X so I can't automate this parameter. Is there any way you can allow this parameter to be seen by the host so I can use Midi Learn to automate the knob movement? Just about every other parameter shows up in the controls list.

That parameter changes the plugin latency. Making it automatable would pose a lot of difficulties to some hosts.

Most of our last minute fixes, and a one week delay of the release date were attributed to this parameter, and teh difficulties some hosts have with dynamic latency changes.

[parma]

I'm currently looking inito the wow & flutter 'issue', and I got a feeling we can improve it greatly.
Mind you, there's a 'default transport setup' and a virtual capstan diameter which I've chosen to cause fluctuations at around 6 - 7 Hz @ 7.5ips. This fluctuation changes with speed (of course), therefore the w&f texture won't match the one from, say, a cassette recorder, even if you turn the sped down to 1.875 ips like it's possible in newer beta builds. As speed gets adjusted, the machine speeds up or down, the parts aren't changed. That should be kept in mind when going for lo-fi sounds.

Sascha or Urs -

I'm playing with the Satin demo and noticed that I can get the "warbly" sound I'm after by subtly moving the Range knob in Flange mode. Only problem is that it doesn't appear in the controls list in Logic X so I can't automate this parameter. Is there any way you can allow this parameter to be seen by the host so I can use Midi Learn to automate the knob movement? Just about every other parameter shows up in the controls list.

That parameter changes the plugin latency. Making it automatable would pose a lot of difficulties to some hosts.

Most of our last minute fixes, and a one week delay of the release date were attributed to this parameter, and teh difficulties some hosts have with dynamic latency changes.

ah, ok. that's too bad.

[Howard]

I'm playing with the Satin demo and noticed that I can get the "warbly" sound I'm after by subtly moving the Range knob in Flange mode. Only problem is that it doesn't appear in the controls list in Logic X so I can't automate this parameter.

Automating the "manual" slider (instead of triggering it) might give you what you want.

[medienhexer]

If Satin is based on modeling both head and tape, then it would be possible to add a worn-out tape model and a faulty head at a later stage, I guess. However, please, guys, U-he have just finished a huge amount of work and are now taking on bug fixing for features they actually advertised (i think mixing will be more fun and a little easier thanks to Satin's current tape characteristics). We all know that improvements will happen over time. And I'd be as pleased as anobody else to get access to more lofi but there's also Diva, Bazille, Zebra 3, Presswerk and UHBIK additions which are highly anticipated. If lofi tape is the only thing which could convince you to buy Satin, U-he will understand that you won't buy at this point in time.

And generally speaking: you can't just add bad behavior within a few days and expect it to be authentic. Creating a model of a bad circuit is just as much effort as creating a model of a good circuit. I wouldn't expect the same effort as for the current models but still several weeks to months. I'd rather have Presswerk and UHBIK first before they invest the time and money into a lofi model.

And I'm sure u-he know best how to spend their time and manage their projects.

My point exactly. Thanks for your support!

[bmanic]

It's wow&flutter isn't quite as convincing either.

If you can provide us with more info on what your 'ideal' w&f is like (isn't it funny...? ), we're all ears.
More 'scrape flutter'?
More random/worn-out?
Anything else? Let us know.

Well I'll have to record a bad tape machine first to see what is TRULY realistic when it comes to heavy wow/flutter (the two machines we have in the studio are very subtle) but at the moment Satin wow&flutter sounds more like a pretty clean modulation that just gets wilder at extreme settings. The wow&flutter in Reelbus for example has a lot of things that start happening, like worn out parts, sudden shifts in the stereo spectrum, like the whole tape is moving around/up and down past the rec and repro heads.

So yeah, perhaps more "scrape" and worn out stereo randomness.

Cheers!
bManic

[sascha]

Thing is, worn-out tape != wow & flutter. The tape condition *can* add up to that problem, but isn't the only cause.

I've started altering my model this week and implemented scrape flutter and random imperfections, but these are mainly transport-related issues. The impact on frequency response you're describing (and what is probably existent in Reelbus) is - in my view - more on the 'broken tape' side, which I'm not that interested in. What I'm interested in is transport and coating which already creates numerous artifacts, but I'd rather not simulate a twisted, buckled or curled tape, at least not as a function of wow & flutter. This could be something like 'condition', but atm we're seriously running out of GUI space and many people are already overwhelmed by the amount of parameters, so my current answer is: no...

We might have something new to play around with in the next big update, which still might not be perfect for everyone, but should definitely be a step forward for all.

[Arksun]

Sascha has done such an incredible job with this plugin, absolutely love it to bits. The way it handles the high frequencies with the smoothness whilst still retaining the transients and being able to precisely tweak this behaviour is very special indeed.

Comparing to the last tape plugin I bought the TB Reelbus, makes that one sound very mushy in comparison. That one still has its uses though, the both of them being used alongside each other (or even together) provides some interesting contrasts in sound.

[J4R1O]

Comparing to the last tape plugin I bought the TB Reelbus, makes that one sound very mushy in comparison. That one still has its uses though, the both of them being used alongside each other (or even together) provides some interesting contrasts in sound.

Exactly! I just TB ReelBus AND Satin, and I use them both on my projects. I've been using ReelBus on master bus and Satin on drum bus.

Also Kramer Master Tape sounds magnificent on many tracks (especially on bass and kick).

[momalle3]

Satin has completely replaced VTM for me. It's just a better, more effective, more versatile plugin

[Tp3]

the both of them being used alongside each other (or even together) provides some interesting contrasts in sound.

I can agree with that

[chilly7]

Satin has completely replaced VTM for me. It's just a better, more effective, more versatile plugin

Well i heared that Slate Digital Virtual tape machine is meant to be equal to the real tape machin, some realy want that but Uhe Satine is over hiped emulation?

[chilly7]

Buy Satin its cheaper (You can get it cheaper while its on a introductory offer @ $89) and you won't have to deal with the stupid I-lok fiasco.

people buy music software not because it is cheaper or need to use some additional devices, people buy plugins for the sound quality and possiblities!!

[momalle3]

To be honest, I have no idea which is more like a real tape machine. i have very limited experience with high end tape machines. Both plugins do what tape is supposed to do, which is "warm" and smooth the sound and add dimension and depth. Both produce a very pleasing effect.


My first experience with Tape sims was VTM; I liked the effect so much in the demo that I bought it. It's a good plugin, and if I didn't hate the Ilok, I'd never have tried anything else.

Satin is much much more "tweakable," so you can go to basically no effect at all to a really strong obvious effect. it's not, in my opinion, "hyped" at all , unless you want it to be. Satin can also be a delay or a flanger.

So it's equally good, in my opinion, at ":the tape effect," but it's more varied, and has other excellent features VTM does not. It doesn't use an Ilok, and even at full price it's cheaper than VTM.

[Bronto Scorpio]

I don't know if Satin sounds like real tape as my experience with tape is also limited to a bunch of consumer cassette thingies (they can be quite a lot of fun though), but I do know that I like it's sound a lot!

Just throwing it on a few tracks without even doing much really glues things together, it also makes mixing a lot easier/faster!
I also really appreciate how versatile it is!

I think it's a fantastic plugin!

Cheers
Dennis